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Ms. Toad

(35,851 posts)
33. Yes. I had support from other women,
Tue Jan 28, 2014, 02:32 PM
Jan 2014

and from a few men, as well.

I have many gay male friends -and most of them are very aware of the potential for mysogyny, and try to avoid it - and when called on it usually respond very thoughtfully.

But I choose to hang out with gay men who are involved in intentionally inclusive communities. Some of those communities have taken a lot of work to move toward being inclusive - in one instance, the women in the group locking ourselves away from the men until they were willing to work on their sexism (this was nearly 3 decades ago). We putting in place community rules to make the community a welcoming place for all of us. Ironically, or perhaps not so, when we were challenged to be more inclusive of bi and trans* individuals later, some of those rules we put in place had to yield to make the group more inclusive for the next less privileged group we wanted to include.

Being inclusive takes work - Homogeneous groups tend toward the dominant norms of the members of the group, and heterogeneous groups tend toward the dominant norms of the dominant subgroup. That's why mixed LGBT spaces (or strictly male GBT spaces) are often really uncomfortable for women, unless those groups work intentionally to be inclusive. I understand the dynamic. What pissed me off on DU was the insistence that I was imagining it, and the real anger that was at the foundation of a lot of the posts directed at me for suggesting that the LGBT space on DU didn't feel very welcoming to me - specifically as a woman.

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to the best of my knowledge that is not true in my relationships, but then I hollysmom Jan 2014 #1
I've only experienced a bit of this in real life BainsBane Jan 2014 #2
the brush seems overly broad here geek tragedy Jan 2014 #3
Considering the author is himself a gay man BainsBane Jan 2014 #4
very possibly, but i'm always suspicious of cultural pieces that geek tragedy Jan 2014 #5
It's not just based on television footage. nt redqueen Jan 2014 #6
How do they know the women are straight? BainsBane Jan 2014 #10
obviously gay men can be sexist and practice sexism, I certainly geek tragedy Jan 2014 #16
And so can lesbians. pnwmom Jan 2014 #22
I don't think the author is accusing all gay men of acting this way. pnwmom Jan 2014 #18
I'm really glad to see this. redqueen Jan 2014 #7
I knew that already, but the article is a very good read. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #8
why can't human beings treat other human beings with a modicaum of respect, a tiny amount Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #9
Every geoup has its jerks, but please do not blame everyone in a group for the actions of uppityperson Jan 2014 #11
Firstly, the author is a gay man. He isn't blaming anyone. BainsBane Jan 2014 #12
Are you saying all gay men are misogynistic? Or that it is a "cultural tendency" of gay men to uppityperson Jan 2014 #13
No, I am saying we live in a sexist, racist and homophobic culture BainsBane Jan 2014 #14
Thanks for the clarification. Bigotry is so ingrained many do not recognize it most of the time. uppityperson Jan 2014 #15
Yes! There is this view that gay people are too enlightened to be sexist, pnwmom Jan 2014 #20
Where are you getting that? That's not what the poster is saying, or the article in the OP. pnwmom Jan 2014 #27
Who is extrapolating this to the whole group? It's written by a gay man pnwmom Jan 2014 #19
Start by looking at the title of the thread. "gay male subculture". uppityperson Jan 2014 #23
I guess we're reading that differently. I read that as "a subculture of the larger gay community." pnwmom Jan 2014 #25
Even if it did, that is not the same as saying "all gay men are misogynsits" BainsBane Jan 2014 #26
Do you know why this article got locked in GD? n/t pnwmom Jan 2014 #17
It looks like the OP was PPR'd BainsBane Jan 2014 #21
infovirio, here is their profile link. uppityperson Jan 2014 #24
FWIW, if anyone is interested, it was a caver uppityperson Jan 2014 #34
I see the poster was. Not the writer of the article, though, pnwmom Jan 2014 #36
I agree, just thought some might be interested in seeing who posted that and was banned uppityperson Jan 2014 #37
I was going to say that the resistance to discussing this issue is bizarre. redqueen Jan 2014 #28
Behavior like this is why I spend virtually no time in the LGBT group here. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #29
That whole situation is disturbing. redqueen Jan 2014 #30
The entire incident was disturbing. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #32
I'm glad you spoke out, I remember that situation and believe you had support from other women seaglass Jan 2014 #31
Yes. I had support from other women, Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #33
I've heard that many lesbians feel unwelcome there BainsBane Jan 2014 #35
How do you mean? I thought f/m terminology had split into xommon useage of uppityperson Jan 2014 #39
Do you mean the part about gay and heteronormative? BainsBane Jan 2014 #40
yes, thank you. That post was jury hidden, 6-0 as it should have been.It was both uppityperson Jan 2014 #41
Actually the post I'm thinking of wasn't hidden BainsBane Jan 2014 #42
It is also not a safe place for children of gays to post on sensitive issues. pnwmom Jan 2014 #38
Latest Discussions»Alliance Forums»History of Feminism»A gay man calls out misog...»Reply #33