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History of Feminism

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BainsBane

(55,406 posts)
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 06:08 PM Jan 2014

A gay man calls out misogyny in gay male subculture [View all]

A really fascinating article. I've picked four paragraphs from different parts of the piece, but you really need to read it all.

It's a dirty secret of a subculture of the gay male world about women: That they're essentially unwelcome, unless they come to us as a Real Housewife, a pop diva, or an Tony award winner–or an unassuming fag hag. To anyone just coming out of the closet and hoping to get his bearings in the gay male community, the attitude towards women is simple: They are just objects whose function is to serve gay men. Maybe it happens when gay men get too comfortable in newly-discovered safe spaces–where they get to call the shots as their proudly out new selves. Or maybe it happens through cultural conditioning. Whatever the cause is, it becomes clear: If there isn't any kind of transactional exchange happening, then women lose their value in gay male subcultures. . . .

I used to have a best friend of over 20 years who had taken to calling his closest girlfriends the b-word and that c-word regularly. He had taken to screaming at them and insulting their bodies. When prodded about his disrespect, he'd dismiss it as humor. "God, can't you take a joke?" would be one of his favorite refrains. I say, "I used to," because sometimes you have to draw a line about who you keep in your life and who you don't. I couldn't stand to be around this kind of language any longer. Because as gay men, we actually have to find ways to empathize with our female friends, not use them as props to boost our own self-worth. It turns out even gay men objectify women–but dismiss such thoughts on the basis of their sexual orientation. Guys, no. "But, I'm gay!" can't be your excuse for anything, not in a world where entire industries now make concerted efforts to court our demographics. . . .

So many of us are only familiar with the idea of male privilege being the province of straight men that we discount how gay men are able to exert dominance and control over women. We may forget this because much of American history has painted gay men as victims–and as gay men, many of us blithely buy into this narrative even if it isn't our own personal history, because it allows us an easy way to assimilate to the larger gay male culture. Only in the last decade has gay male identity become accepted into casual discourse–and normalized into our cultural diet. Before we dive too deep into this, it's careful to delineate that for the purposes of this piece, "gay men" is a subjective, if imprecise lumping of all such men. It's not a static grouping of such men–it's a cluster that even included me for a time.. . .

For example, in 2010, Project Runway judge and fashion designer Isaac Mizrahi grabbed Scarlet Johansson's breasts on the Golden Globes Red Carpet. When she looked visibly mortified, he retorted that he's gay so it's okay. Not so by her count. But when he acts so intrusively with little to no consequences, it sends a message to gay men who are still negotiating their identities and attempting to figure out how to fit into a world that still hasn't found a way to reconcile queer identity completely.

Over at The Good Men Project, Yolo Akili writes:

At a recent presentation, I asked all of the gay male students in the room to raise their hand if in the past week they touched a woman's body without her consent. After a moment of hesitation, all of the hands of the gay men in the room went up. I then asked the same gay men to raise their hand if in the past week they offered a woman unsolicited advice about how to "improve" her body or her fashion. Once again, after a moment of hesitation, all of the hands in the room went up.

So you have young gay men witnessing Mizrahi's behavior; "I'm gay" gets handed down as an acceptable excuse for gay men to probe and disrespect women's bodies. It's endemic of a gay male culture that would sooner trot out a history of being victimized as an excuse for acting like assholes rather than taking ownership for said behavior, or better yet, correcting that kind of behavior.


http://jezebel.com/the-myth-of-the-fag-hag-and-dirty-secrets-of-the-gay-ma-1506868402?rev=1390680196&utm_campaign=socialflow_jezebel_facebook&utm_source=jezebel_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
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to the best of my knowledge that is not true in my relationships, but then I hollysmom Jan 2014 #1
I've only experienced a bit of this in real life BainsBane Jan 2014 #2
the brush seems overly broad here geek tragedy Jan 2014 #3
Considering the author is himself a gay man BainsBane Jan 2014 #4
very possibly, but i'm always suspicious of cultural pieces that geek tragedy Jan 2014 #5
It's not just based on television footage. nt redqueen Jan 2014 #6
How do they know the women are straight? BainsBane Jan 2014 #10
obviously gay men can be sexist and practice sexism, I certainly geek tragedy Jan 2014 #16
And so can lesbians. pnwmom Jan 2014 #22
I don't think the author is accusing all gay men of acting this way. pnwmom Jan 2014 #18
I'm really glad to see this. redqueen Jan 2014 #7
I knew that already, but the article is a very good read. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #8
why can't human beings treat other human beings with a modicaum of respect, a tiny amount Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #9
Every geoup has its jerks, but please do not blame everyone in a group for the actions of uppityperson Jan 2014 #11
Firstly, the author is a gay man. He isn't blaming anyone. BainsBane Jan 2014 #12
Are you saying all gay men are misogynistic? Or that it is a "cultural tendency" of gay men to uppityperson Jan 2014 #13
No, I am saying we live in a sexist, racist and homophobic culture BainsBane Jan 2014 #14
Thanks for the clarification. Bigotry is so ingrained many do not recognize it most of the time. uppityperson Jan 2014 #15
Yes! There is this view that gay people are too enlightened to be sexist, pnwmom Jan 2014 #20
Where are you getting that? That's not what the poster is saying, or the article in the OP. pnwmom Jan 2014 #27
Who is extrapolating this to the whole group? It's written by a gay man pnwmom Jan 2014 #19
Start by looking at the title of the thread. "gay male subculture". uppityperson Jan 2014 #23
I guess we're reading that differently. I read that as "a subculture of the larger gay community." pnwmom Jan 2014 #25
Even if it did, that is not the same as saying "all gay men are misogynsits" BainsBane Jan 2014 #26
Do you know why this article got locked in GD? n/t pnwmom Jan 2014 #17
It looks like the OP was PPR'd BainsBane Jan 2014 #21
infovirio, here is their profile link. uppityperson Jan 2014 #24
FWIW, if anyone is interested, it was a caver uppityperson Jan 2014 #34
I see the poster was. Not the writer of the article, though, pnwmom Jan 2014 #36
I agree, just thought some might be interested in seeing who posted that and was banned uppityperson Jan 2014 #37
I was going to say that the resistance to discussing this issue is bizarre. redqueen Jan 2014 #28
Behavior like this is why I spend virtually no time in the LGBT group here. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #29
That whole situation is disturbing. redqueen Jan 2014 #30
The entire incident was disturbing. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #32
I'm glad you spoke out, I remember that situation and believe you had support from other women seaglass Jan 2014 #31
Yes. I had support from other women, Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #33
I've heard that many lesbians feel unwelcome there BainsBane Jan 2014 #35
How do you mean? I thought f/m terminology had split into xommon useage of uppityperson Jan 2014 #39
Do you mean the part about gay and heteronormative? BainsBane Jan 2014 #40
yes, thank you. That post was jury hidden, 6-0 as it should have been.It was both uppityperson Jan 2014 #41
Actually the post I'm thinking of wasn't hidden BainsBane Jan 2014 #42
It is also not a safe place for children of gays to post on sensitive issues. pnwmom Jan 2014 #38
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