Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Igel

(36,572 posts)
10. Until the 1960s there was pretty much nothing.
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 03:11 PM
Jul 2019

Just copies of histories written down after the events by people who weren't present.

That a ruler and chief administrator, even a minor one by Imperial terms, in an area that was rife with Roman public works would leave some physical traces behind is expected. Which is why, if you read critical works in the 1950s, there's doubt as to whether Pilate even existed or if he, too, was some made-up figure.

Doubt's easy. Was reading this archeological account of a dig in Jerusalem. Apparently in the 1099 First Crusade there was an attack on a Muslim fortress. Attacked from the south, the fortress held. The Crusaders had to cross a ditch, and while they tried to fill it in it still provided enough protection to the fortress and disruption to the attackers that the southern attack failed. It wasn't until there was an attack from the north that the fortress fell. That was the accounts, histories written centuries ago about that event.

However, historians were like, "WTFs a ditch doing there? Why should there be a ditch? There ain't no f-ing ditch there now. The historian wasn't personally, there, so maybe somebody just made it up. Maybe the historian made it up? C'mon, prove it to me--and if you can't prove it, then I think you're either lying or just really in error. Let me authoritatively theorize how the historian's error happened and tell you the truth about what actually happened, and that'll get me another publication for my c.v." Except that a recent dig at the location showed there was a ditch there at the time of the attack. All the critics bet on their own ego and took lack of physical evidence but with near-contemporary accounts as evidence of absence. No southern attack in 1099. No Pontius Pilate.

We're willing to believe indigenous oral traditions from the Americans and Africa that go back hundreds and hundreds of years. But if was written down from eyewitnesses, if it was written down 20 or 30 years after the fact, well, who can trust *that*? (Listened today to a historian talking about the Clotilda, and discussing accounts written down decades after the fact by writers of the last surviving male from that slave ship, in which they discussed things that happened during the man's childhood. People using those texts are working at a greater remove in time that gospel writers would have been from 30 AD. Some things we believe true because we want to; some things we believe false because we want to.)

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

How do you get "Pontius Pilate" from that??? Jake Stern Jul 2019 #1
The same way you get "No Collusion" from Muller's report. 3Hotdogs Jul 2019 #2
So further down in the article Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #3
Faith, I guess. trotsky Jul 2019 #4
Except we know PP was a real person Major Nikon Jul 2019 #5
Pretty interesting... Act_of_Reparation Jul 2019 #6
It was at least around 70 years before anyone bothered to write anything down about him Major Nikon Jul 2019 #8
Yes. Someone noticed a minor Roman official but not MineralMan Jul 2019 #9
Until the 1960s there was pretty much nothing. Igel Jul 2019 #10
Ugh. trotsky Jul 2019 #13
It actually reads PILATO MineralMan Jul 2019 #7
Some forget that Greek would have been the Imperial language in the area. Igel Jul 2019 #11
Yup. It's funny, really. MineralMan Jul 2019 #12
1st century the official language was Latin. Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #14
Still, the inscription on that cheap copper ring MineralMan Jul 2019 #15
Does "Pilato' have meaning in-of-itself in Greek? Is it a... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #16
Nope. I ran it through Google Translate, which just gave me: PILATO from MineralMan Jul 2019 #17
I'm not willing to make such an assurance... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #18
Sorry. I can't help you with that. I have no knowledge of Greek MineralMan Jul 2019 #19
It's the Greek form of a Latin name. Act_of_Reparation Jul 2019 #20
still if the claim is that it is a 'seal' ring for signing Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #21
I agree. MineralMan Jul 2019 #22
Even if it was Pilate's ring (some good posts here about raccoon Jul 2019 #23
I wholeheartedley agree... uriel1972 Jul 2019 #24
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Pontius Pilate's Name Is ...»Reply #10