Religion

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)

87. If you don't want to go down rabbit holes, don't enter them

Mon Nov 26, 2018, 03:57 PM

Nov 2018

I could just as well argue you've distracted from my only argument, which is that between proof/no proof there are a range of probabilities and evidences that historians actually use. If you'd like a name for this fallacy, it's the Fallacy of the Excluded Middle. If you don't like a name for your own fallacies, then don't name fallacies.

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Hillel the Elder and Jesus were contemporaries, according to the stories. [View all] MineralMan Nov 2018 OP

Maybe they were the same person, and the followers invented the stories. TreasonousBastard Nov 2018 #1

We will never know. Cary Nov 2018 #3

Could very well be. The Sumerians seemed to have Crutchez_CuiBono Nov 2018 #4

Or, perhaps a young Jesus met Hillel and listened to him. MineralMan Nov 2018 #5

Does it matter if they actually lived? Cary Nov 2018 #2

Well, it probably doesn't matter, but it's important to many MineralMan Nov 2018 #6

True believers decide for themselves what they think is important. nt. Mariana Nov 2018 #9

We each decide for ourselves what is important Cary Nov 2018 #19

Except that wouldn't really make them a true believer Major Nikon Nov 2018 #13

Or, in the case of some, an admission that it's all pretty much metaphor MineralMan Nov 2018 #14

Some aren't comfortable with unanswerable questions Major Nikon Nov 2018 #16

Hocus Pocus Dominocus MineralMan Nov 2018 #17

Since all of what we deem to be "reality" is in fact an illusion... Cary Nov 2018 #23

Obviously it can mean whatever people want it to mean Major Nikon Nov 2018 #29

It is 100% faith which means it is personal Cary Nov 2018 #32

Facts not in evidence. MineralMan Nov 2018 #62

They all pick and choose, including the ones who say they don't marylandblue Nov 2018 #28

"Actually lived" is fundamental to Christianity. Voltaire2 Nov 2018 #24

There is zero proof, in spite of meticulous Roman record keeping Cary Nov 2018 #25

Oh I agree that it is likely all fictional. Voltaire2 Nov 2018 #26

I understand your point Cary Nov 2018 #27

I wouldn't agree with zero Major Nikon Nov 2018 #30

Zero Cary Nov 2018 #31

As I said, I don't agree Major Nikon Nov 2018 #33

That's an appeal to popularity Cary Nov 2018 #34

Not quite Major Nikon Nov 2018 #35

What "autboritative opinions" based on what "documents?" Cary Nov 2018 #37

Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean I'm wrong Major Nikon Nov 2018 #39

I see, so now you presume to tell me how I feel. Cary Nov 2018 #40

Thanks, I will advise my former history teachers to close down their department marylandblue Nov 2018 #45

Do whatever you think you need to do Cary Nov 2018 #47

I am not the one who told you how you feel, so don't complain to me. marylandblue Nov 2018 #49

I'm not telling you to feel anything Major Nikon Nov 2018 #46

You engaged in sd hominem Cary Nov 2018 #52

Nonsense Major Nikon Nov 2018 #65

I am not "a big fan of pointing out logical fallacies." Cary Nov 2018 #66

Well, you've already told us what you were thinking. MineralMan Nov 2018 #67

What we perceive as reality is indeed an illusion. Cary Nov 2018 #68

You can go on if you like. MineralMan Nov 2018 #70

Our knowledge base expands Cary Nov 2018 #72

This argument is illogical marylandblue Nov 2018 #73

It's a rhetorical statement, really. MineralMan Nov 2018 #75

It's also a meaningless argument marylandblue Nov 2018 #78

Correct. It's all part of the "Matrix" fallacy, MineralMan Nov 2018 #79

That isn't at all what I said Cary Nov 2018 #80

What you did was hijack my thread. MineralMan Nov 2018 #81

Yeah, I am not so happy with you either, dude Cary Nov 2018 #84

:shrug: MineralMan Nov 2018 #85

I have had plenty of pleasant exchanges with you Cary Nov 2018 #88

Our senses are largely an illusion Cary Nov 2018 #82

If you don't want to go down rabbit holes, don't enter them marylandblue Nov 2018 #87

Biblical historians have different standards of evidence. Voltaire2 Nov 2018 #86

Slim but not zero marylandblue Nov 2018 #89

All academics have various biases Major Nikon Nov 2018 #90

Not at all, between 0 and 100 is real history marylandblue Nov 2018 #36

My assertion is that there is no evidence to prove or disprove Cary Nov 2018 #38

There is in fact evidence, just a matter of how you weight them marylandblue Nov 2018 #42

In other words you have no objective evidence Cary Nov 2018 #43

What do you consider objective evidence in ancient history? marylandblue Nov 2018 #44

Archeological records Cary Nov 2018 #48

Now be good enough to answer my question. Cary Nov 2018 #50

Nope, very little ancient history is "reliable first hand accounts" marylandblue Nov 2018 #51

What are you trying to say? Cary Nov 2018 #53

I am trying to say you are thinking in black and white marylandblue Nov 2018 #55

Oh good, another one telling me how I think! Cary Nov 2018 #56

After complaining that I told you how you think marylandblue Nov 2018 #60

You cannot prove your religion. Cary Nov 2018 #57

What proseletyzing? I am agnostic. marylandblue Nov 2018 #61

There's also big difference between an informed guess and pure speculation Major Nikon Nov 2018 #41

How about zero first hand sources? Cary Nov 2018 #54

You are confusing expert opinion with argument from popularity marylandblue Nov 2018 #64

There's also "zero first hand sources" Muhammad existed Major Nikon Nov 2018 #69

We weren't talking about Muhammed Cary Nov 2018 #71

You also claimed that reality is an illusion and we'll never know most of it marylandblue Nov 2018 #74

Neither were "we" speaking of Clinton murder allegations Major Nikon Nov 2018 #83

It matters, because the things attributed to them MineralMan Nov 2018 #63

I think Jesus was probably a real dude qazplm135 Nov 2018 #7

There's no way to know, actually. MineralMan Nov 2018 #8

Ironically we know far more about Socrates than Jesus Major Nikon Nov 2018 #18

Exactly. MineralMan Nov 2018 #21

that's probably why I used words like qazplm135 Nov 2018 #20

I wasn't arguing with you. MineralMan Nov 2018 #22

I studied with a rabbi who insisted that Jesus plagiarized from other no_hypocrisy Nov 2018 #10

That Rabbi knows no more about what Jesus actually did or said MineralMan Nov 2018 #11

There's quite a bit of that going around these days as well Major Nikon Nov 2018 #12

Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so! MineralMan Nov 2018 #15

Growing up in Galilee, Jesus was no doubt exposed to all sorts of radical philosophies, as well as malchickiwick Nov 2018 #58

There's a lot of time during which there is no information MineralMan Nov 2018 #59

This explains it all. thewhollytoast Nov 2018 #76

See this thread: MineralMan Nov 2018 #77