Religion
In reply to the discussion: On the question of free will and pre-determination, [View all]marylandblue
(12,344 posts)It becomes a self-organizing structure that is no longer random. We don't know exactly how this happens. We'll probably never know, because there are too many variables. We assume it all follows the laws of physics, but we can't actually prove it, experimentally. We don't know of some other way it could happen. But that doesn't make it deterministic. We just don't know the answer. We use statistics and mathematically modelling to simulate it, but we still don't know for sure.
But we do know that it can self organize into a hurricane. The hurricane exchanges energy and information within itself (through winds) to maintain itself. It has properties that the original random elements didn't have.
You can think of brains as a self organized system itself. It too built itself up from originally random elements into a structure that exchanges energy and information. Unlike a storm, it is goal directed. No single neuron is conscious or could have anything resembling free will, but put all those neurons together in a certain configuration and it has properties that are not found in any of the elements. We don't know exactly how.
It must have something to do with the complex interconnections, feedback loops, ability to imagine goals and take steps to enact those goals that create the properties of the system. It does things that are goal directed but not random. It is self-organizing, self-aware and self-modulating. It can set itself in configurations that are not pre-programmed, not random, have never been seen before, and will never be seen again. I say that a system with such properties is a free will system.
If you think that the only way that can happen is through some supernatural agent, go right ahead and think that. You won't be alone, you'll in fact be in line with what most of humanity has thought throughout time. I can't disprove it. But I don't see how it violates the laws of physics. I don't see how deterministic processes at the molecular level can't produce a non-deterministic structure at the system level. You making an assumption that it "can't happen" but you can't actually prove that assumption. But I don't see how it isn't a free will system, as I've defined it. I also don't see how a system that isn't pre-programmed and isn't random was nonetheless preordained from the beginning of the universe.
To me THAT would be supernatural, like God omnisciently knowing before creation exactly what you'd be doing right now. Somehow I have to believe the universe itself has that God-like property, but I can't trust my own feeling that I can end this post at any time and get up and do something else. Like I am doing right... now.