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Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 07:49 PM Sep 2021

Muhammad Ali and the Invisible Punch. [View all]

Last edited Sat Sep 25, 2021, 08:36 AM - Edit history (1)

All my life I have heard the story that the second Muhammad Ali - Sonny Liston fight ended with an invisible punch, leading to all sorts of speculation as to what really happened to end the fight in the first round. Inspired by Ken Burns' documentary on Ali, I decided to see what I could find out.
The fight had been agreed to in the contract for the first Ali- Liston fight. However such a clause was illegal under WBA rules so it was difficult to find a venue to stage the fight. It ended up being held in the small city of Lewiston, ME. The fight lasted only about a minute and 40 seconds. Liston comes out and tries to stalk Ali. He follows him around the ring throwing many punches, few of which land, none with any effect. This fight, brief though it is, shows Ali at his very best: beautiful footwork, great speed when he chooses to throw a punch, the astonishing ability not to duck a punch but simply to lean away from them. His hands are at his waist, daring Liston to try to hit him. Liston just can't do it. After a minute, Ali lands a really solid right counter punch. Although Liston doesn't slow down his pursuit the punch must have had some effect. It was very solid.
At about a minute forty we come to 'the punch'. Liston moves in, misses with a punch and Ali throws a right. Liston goes down and lies flat on the mat. This is the point where I always thought the fight ended with the iconic photo of Ali standing over a prone Liston..Only it didn't happen that way. Here it becomes truly bizarre.
With Liston down, Ali refuses to go to a neutral corner. The referee Jersey Joe Walcott, after some time, is able to eventually guide Ali to a corner. Meanwhile Liston rises to one knee, collapses again, but then almost immediately gets to his feet. Walcott comes over, checks on Liston and allows the fight to continue. However, just as boxing resumes Walcott is distracted by something. He leaves the fighters, goes to the side of the ring and then quickly comes back and stops the fight.
What actually happened is this: Under the rules of the fight as recited in Wikipedia, only the referee could count a fighter out. Once Liston went down and Ali was in his corner Wolcott had a choice: He could have consulted the timer who had the job of counting how long Liston was down and picked up the timer's count, or he himself could have started a new count. He did neither. He simply allowed the fight to resume. The timer apparently was a little fellow named McDonough, couldn't be seen from the ring and his voice couldn't be heard over the crowd but he was keeping a count when Liston went down. What distracted Wolcott when the fight resumed was the editor of Ring magazine, Nat Fleischer, who was sitting next to the timer, screaming that the fight was over because the timer had counted Liston out. Wolcott consulted with the timer and then improperly ended the bout.
So what to make of it all? First, the invisible punch. Did it actually land? I've watched the tape a dozen times. I'm pretty sure it lands. It's not a knockout punch though.
The one that came 30 seconds earlier was a more devastating blow. I've included the video below in particular though because at the end the broadcaster goes over a slow motion video of the fight with Ali. Ali clearly has no idea at the beginning if he landed a punch and if so with what hand. I've read several accounts of Liston's version of the fight. In all of them Liston concedes he was hit. He says he was never actually out but was confused because he couldn't hear a count and wasn't sure at what point to get up.
What actually happened? We can only guess. There is a theory that Liston threw the fight and another that he just gave up for whatever reason (Fear of the Black Muslims? He just didn't want to go on trying to hit someone and not succeeding?). The problem with both those ideas to my mind is that Liston got up and continued the fight. If the fix was in or if he just wanted 'no mas' it would only make sense that he would stay on the canvas. As I said, I'm reasonably certain Ali's punch landed and it was an honest knock down. The great boxerJames Braddock, the Cinderella Man, was at ringside. He had a theory that the first right Ali landed 30 seconds before had a devastating effect and the second right just completed the job. For want of any better explanation I'll go along with an experienced fighter's opinion.
What would have happened if the fight had continued? I don't think there is any doubt.
Liston was in real trouble. The round had a minute to go. Ali was intent on ending it. If it didn't end then this was the Ali of the mid 60s. There has been no one as fast, as tough and as elegant as Ali in his prime. This was a good fighter against an immortal one. Liston stood no chance.
There was nothing like Ali in the 60s. Boxing is a brutal sport which I can't watch any more. But seeing The Greatest then was a pure joy. He was a great fighter in the early 70s when he returned the ring from exile but not the same fighter as when he was young:
Float like a butterfly, Sting like a bee! Rumble, young man, rumble! Yes indeed!








Just the punch and it's aftermath:

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I watched that special too gopiscrap Sep 2021 #1
I remember that one of them heard 'hit that ni__er' from the audience and wondered which fighter was keithbvadu2 Sep 2021 #2
The "anchor punch." H2O Man Sep 2021 #3
Great stuff! I did read of the story Ali told about being taught Tomconroy Sep 2021 #4
Both before H2O Man Sep 2021 #5
So how good a boxer was Ali? Tomconroy Sep 2021 #6
He was at the H2O Man Sep 2021 #7
Here's a woman's perspective on the punch: Tomconroy Sep 2021 #8
Right. H2O Man Sep 2021 #10
I sure wouldn't have wanted to get on Sonny Liston's wrong side! Tomconroy Sep 2021 #9
Right. H2O Man Sep 2021 #11
I just found this video. In slow motion you can see Tomconroy Sep 2021 #12
Yeah. H2O Man Sep 2021 #13
I really appreciate your writing in. I learned a lot. Tomconroy Sep 2021 #14
I enjoy this. H2O Man Sep 2021 #15
A couple questions for you. StevieM Oct 2021 #16
Good questions. H2O Man Oct 2021 #17
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