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Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
13. My education in political theory pretty much held that the B.O.R.'s rights...
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 02:15 PM
Apr 2016

were individual and natural (and necessarily pre-dating the nation and its governing documents), with the federal government's role as that of defending these rights. Some have described the language of he Bill as "negativist" in structure ("Congress shall make no law...&quot . In a real sense, the language is far more powerful and economical than if government was seen as a doler of rights; if rights are given, rights can be taken away.

According communal rights results in endless definitions of what a community is, how many there are, and how a community's rights are defended (or not). Some have speculated that the expression "the People" implies communal rights, most notably in the 4th; yet even here the government is charged with describing in a warrant "....the persons...to be seized." It seems obvious to me that rights must necessarily be individual if there is any chànce the government will have the legitimacy and power to defend them.

I have no problem with the expressions "right to an education, housing, health care, jobs, etc." But these are terms of art and not rights, and nevertheless well within the powers of the government's charged duties in the original Articles. (For that matter, states do not have rights either.)

The so-called "militia clause" seems more like a reminder of the powers the government has regarding the calling up of a militia, as explained in Article 1, and not a conditioner of the individual RKBA. As some have pointed out, the mention of militia may have been political, to assuage the fears states who were distrustful of a standing army; after all, the BOR was undergoing the quite political process of ratification. Far from the people being restricted by militia service if they wish to bear arms, the government is restricted to only calling up its citizens (Article 1) who already have the pre-existing RKBA.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

2A: Group or individual right? [View all] tortoise1956 Apr 2016 OP
How interesting. SheilaT Apr 2016 #1
It seems a foregone conclusion that... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #2
My education in political theory pretty much held that the B.O.R.'s rights... Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #13
I reject the notions of collective and/or individual so-called "rights" to guns. stone space Apr 2016 #3
But can you support such an assertion... theatre goon Apr 2016 #4
At my age, I offer mostly moral support for those actively struggling against the tools of violence. stone space Apr 2016 #6
So, the answer is no. theatre goon Apr 2016 #8
At my age... CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #17
In other words, you do nothing of substance to advance your cause of gun control Lurks Often Apr 2016 #18
Au Contraire! DonP Apr 2016 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #20
I'm amused by the near complete lack of support that one receives Lurks Often Apr 2016 #21
So, you you believe... Puha Ekapi Apr 2016 #7
What part of "I reject the notion" did you not understand? stone space Apr 2016 #9
Ok, I just wanted to see... Puha Ekapi Apr 2016 #10
Perhaps the confusion originates in the fact that you are unable to answer questions... Marengo Apr 2016 #29
re: "Guns are not a "right"." discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #11
I used the expression "negative" in regard government's restrictions and implied duties. Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #14
Always has been an individual, always should be. ileus Apr 2016 #5
Three important points... CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #12
It became murky when the representatives recreated the Miltias into the National Guard. jmg257 Apr 2016 #15
The Militia and the National Guard are not one and the same... CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #16
UNorganized Militia is a JOKE jimmy the one Apr 2016 #25
I take it... CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #28
feel good unorganized militia, mostly untrained armed rabble jimmy the one Apr 2016 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #36
All of which is entirely irrelevant to the simple fact that it exists. Marengo Apr 2016 #30
Linguistically, clearly individual. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #22
Let's say for a moment... CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #24
What good are rights not granted to the individual??? ileus Apr 2016 #23
Well - rights SECURED for the individual...I fixed it! :) nt jmg257 Apr 2016 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #26
such misconstruction of what's right before your eyes jimmy the one Apr 2016 #32
Let's take these one at a time tortoise1956 Apr 2016 #37
raccoons are scavengers discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2016 #38
re: "Group or individual right?" discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #33
Very obviously individual, of course. N/T beevul Apr 2016 #34
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