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Kid Berwyn

(24,021 posts)
75. And the admirals, and the NSA, but most of all the CIA.
Fri Feb 27, 2026, 01:33 PM
Friday

That agency fed LBJ different "numbers" than they had been giving JFK. And Johnson gave them what they wanted: war.

Here's some history little known outside those who've read Newman and, more recently, James W. Douglass:

After JFK assassination, President Truman put his concerns about CIA in print.

One month after the assassination, President Harry S Truman expressed public concern CIA had strayed off the reservation from intelligence gathering of foreign news sources to cloak-and-dagger operations.



Limit CIA Role To Intelligence

By Harry S Truman
The Washington Post, December 22, 1963 - page A11

INDEPENDENCE, MO., Dec. 21 — I think it has become necessary to take another look at the purpose and operations of our Central Intelligence Agency—CIA. At least, I would like to submit here the original reason why I thought it necessary to organize this Agency during my Administration, what I expected it to do and how it was to operate as an arm of the President.

I think it is fairly obvious that by and large a President's performance in office is as effective as the information he has and the information he gets. That is to say, that assuming the President himself possesses a knowledge of our history, a sensitive understanding of our institutions, and an insight into the needs and aspirations of the people, he needs to have available to him the most accurate and up-to-the-minute information on what is going on everywhere in the world, and particularly of the trends and developments in all the danger spots in the contest between East and West. This is an immense task and requires a special kind of an intelligence facility.

Of course, every President has available to him all the information gathered by the many intelligence agencies already in existence. The Departments of State, Defense, Commerce, Interior and others are constantly engaged in extensive information gathering and have done excellent work.

But their collective information reached the President all too frequently in conflicting conclusions. At times, the intelligence reports tended to be slanted to conform to established positions of a given department. This becomes confusing and what's worse, such intelligence is of little use to a President in reaching the right decisions.

Therefore, I decided to set up a special organization charged with the collection of all intelligence reports from every available source, and to have those reports reach me as President without department "treatment" or interpretations.

I wanted and needed the information in its "natural raw" state and in as comprehensive a volume as it was practical for me to make full use of it. But the most important thing about this move was to guard against the chance of intelligence being used to influence or to lead the President into unwise decisions—and I thought it was necessary that the President do his own thinking and evaluating.

Since the responsibility for decision making was his—then he had to be sure that no information is kept from him for whatever reason at the discretion of any one department or agency, or that unpleasant facts be kept from him. There are always those who would want to shield a President from bad news or misjudgments to spare him from being "upset."

For some time I have been disturbed by the way CIA has been diverted from its original assignment. It has become an operational and at times a policy-making arm of the Government. This has led to trouble and may have compounded our difficulties in several explosive areas.

I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that it would be injected into peacetime cloak and dagger operations. Some of the complications and embarrassment I think we have experienced are in part attributable to the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President has been so removed from its intended role that it is being interpreted as a symbol of sinister and mysterious foreign intrigue—and a subject for cold war enemy propaganda.

With all the nonsense put out by Communist propaganda about "Yankee imperialism," "exploitive capitalism," "war-mongering," "monopolists," in their name-calling assault on the West, the last thing we needed was for the CIA to be seized upon as something akin to a subverting influence in the affairs of other people.

I well knew the first temporary director of the CIA, Adm. Souers, and the later permanent directors of the CIA, Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg and Allen Dulles. These were men of the highest character, patriotism and integrity—and I assume this is true of all those who continue in charge.

But there are now some searching questions that need to be answered. I, therefore, would like to see the CIA be restored to its original assignment as the intelligence arm of the President, and that whatever else it can properly perform in that special field—and that its operational duties be terminated or properly used elsewhere.

We have grown up as a nation, respected for our free institutions and for our ability to maintain a free and open society. There is something about the way the CIA has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our historic position and I feel that we need to correct it.

SOURCE: http://www.maebrussell.com/Prouty/Harry%20Truman's%20CIA%20article.html



That would be better known, but for some reason it got left out of the Washington Post's afternoon edition and out of most all of the nation’s other newspapers. Nevertheless, to put some emphasis on Truman’s essay, former CIA Director Allen Dulles tried to get a retraction:



Are Presidents Afraid of the CIA?

By Ray McGovern
December 29, 2009

Excerpt…

Fox Guarding Hen House

The well-connected Dulles got himself appointed to the Warren Commission and took the lead in shaping the investigation of JFK’s assassination.

Documents in the Truman Library show that he then mounted a small domestic covert action of his own to neutralize any future airing of Truman’s and Souers’s warnings about covert action.

So important was this to Dulles that he invented a pretext to get himself invited to visit Truman in Independence, Missouri. On the afternoon of April 17, 1964, Dulles spent a half-hour trying to get the former President to retract what he had said in his op-ed. No dice, said Truman.

No problem, thought Dulles. Four days later, in a formal memo for his old buddy Lawrence Houston, CIA General Counsel from 1947 to 1973, Dulles fabricated a private retraction, claiming that Truman told him the Washington Post article was “all wrong,” and that Truman “seemed quite astounded at it.”

No doubt Dulles thought it might be handy to have such a memo in CIA files, just in case.

A fabricated retraction? It certainly seems so, because Truman did not change his tune. Far from it.

In a June 10, 1964, letter to the managing editor of Look magazine, for example, Truman restated his critique of covert action, emphasizing that he never intended the CIA to get involved in “strange activities.”

CONTINUED...

SOURCE: http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/122909b.html



Truman did not point a finger of blame at CIA, Secret Service cough Rowley, the Mafia or anyone. However, it is difficult to think of an innocent explanation for Mr. Dulles’ response and actions — months before President Lyndon B. Johnson would appoint him to the Warren Commission, where he covered up the CIA-Mafia Castro assassination plots and a whole lot more.

Recommendations

3 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The trick is to wage war without declaring war dalton99a Friday #1
Resulting in 58,000 US soldiers killed, 300,000 wounded. surfered Friday #12
+1. Saigon is now a huge modern metropolis dalton99a Friday #18
That picture is beautiful MarineCombatEngineer Friday #53
Wow! SWBTATTReg Friday #73
Ho Chi Minh City surfered Friday #105
My mind is old popsdenver Friday #25
Even the Korean War was described as a police action dalton99a Friday #30
My father served in Vietnam in 1966-67. He never forgave Johnson and McNamara. mommymarine2003 Friday #34
In December, just before the Tet occurred popsdenver Friday #40
If only your father could have known about... Chemical Bill Friday #104
Yeah, at the time, it wasn't a declared war, it was a so called police action, MarineCombatEngineer Friday #56
It was a slow process. GCG Friday #2
I saw this unfold as a young mother. My son was 3 years old. I feared the war would drag on until he was 18 and he would CTyankee Friday #10
The first US soldier killed in Vietnam Emile Friday #15
Johnson lied America into war via Gulf of Tonkin. Kid Berwyn Friday #3
Because he was lied TO by the generals Jilly_in_VA Friday #67
And the admirals, and the NSA, but most of all the CIA. Kid Berwyn Friday #75
Good old Allen Dulles Jilly_in_VA Friday #76
Maximum temperatures, please. And for John McCloy... Kid Berwyn Friday #88
You don't even have to go back that far. Ritabert Friday #4
+1 dalton99a Friday #6
Balloon the debt, it did popsdenver Friday #29
Ah yes, you're bringing back memories PatSeg Friday #36
I bring up current things popsdenver Friday #43
Not everyone is paying close attention PatSeg Friday #58
I've been paying attention since 1969. Reagan really made me pay attention. Ritabert Friday #63
I remember we paid a lot of attention PatSeg Friday #83
I didn't realize what Reagan and his minions were up to until later... Ritabert Friday #97
It is often different when you right in the middle of it PatSeg Friday #101
You are so right. Ritabert Friday #60
Liars all. Ritabert Friday #59
you took the words off my keyboard WhiteTara Friday #39
The reason we are in the economic mess we're in. Ritabert Friday #62
+1 leftstreet Friday #52
After Vietnam divided in half in the '50s the US provided financial support to the south, Ocelot II Friday #5
I thought Eisenhower had *advisors* in Vietnam during his administration at the request of the French Deuxcents Friday #78
He did. Kennedy started the escalation. Ocelot II Friday #82
Truman started that in 1950. Celerity Friday #87
November 1, 1955 "the official beginning of American involvement in the war" muriel_volestrangler Friday #96
Guess I didn't really ask the right question. 3_Limes Friday #7
Maybe on February 27, 1968: Ocelot II Friday #17
It was probably around that time, PatSeg Friday #38
That' was definitely the time Jilly_in_VA Friday #69
I was in college 1967-1971. There were anti war and civil rights protests all the time. I remember things gaining steam KitFox Friday #37
I started college in 1965 and I had a roommate who was already into the antiwar movement. Ocelot II Friday #41
I cannot speak for the average American but... 303squadron Friday #66
Don't have to look that far back. haele Friday #8
True! Iraq is probably a much better example 3_Limes Friday #11
I remember discussing in in my "Problems of Democracy" class in High Schol Mossfern Friday #9
LOL Moss popsdenver Friday #47
If there's one thing we've learned, we cannot trust anything JD Vance says. surfered Friday #13
Yes, I remember, MarineCombatEngineer Friday #14
Piece of Cake! BidenRocks Friday #61
Excellent!!! MarineCombatEngineer Friday #64
I hate to even think this MCE popsdenver Friday #92
When they asked me to reenlist or extend my enlistment I was told that they wouldn't send me to Vietnam. Ping Tung Friday #16
From one Marine to another... MarineCombatEngineer Friday #46
There was a general I admired. Remember him? Ping Tung Friday #85
Gen. David M. Shoup, there's a name I haven't heard in ages, MarineCombatEngineer Friday #86
His name just came to my brain while going through this thread. I vaguely recall his name because Ping Tung Friday #91
family legend- mopinko Friday #19
why does they agresser side always say ," it will be over in a few weeKs" but in reality war would last 3/4 years or AllaN01Bear Friday #20
The reason is oil or some other resource. multigraincracker Friday #22
It was quagmire before the US became involved. Layzeebeaver Friday #21
+1 dalton99a Friday #24
The movie We Were Soldiers opening depicts the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu. MarineCombatEngineer Friday #50
We had military advisors in VietNam since the eaerly 50's. patphil Friday #23
I have a number of monographs on the subject. NNadir Friday #26
Errol Morris' documentary "The Fog of War" covers this really well. Ocelot II Friday #28
Not really an answer to your question but... llmart Friday #27
And we'll be greeted as liberators and heroes, right? Xavier Breath Friday #31
Unlike 1965, a large percentage of people know the real reason for this current BS war. Crowman2009 Friday #32
I remember JFK snowybirdie Friday #33
The US had advisors there from the early 50's, including when the French niyad Friday #54
Ah yes Jilly_in_VA Friday #70
I just posted before I saw yours..Eisenhower had advisors in Vietnam at the request of the French Deuxcents Friday #79
Added to that, the most recent protracted wars are still fresh in people's memories. Crowman2009 Friday #35
VOTE. IMPEACH. CHARGE. PROSECUTE. CONVICT. EVERY DAMN ONE OF THESE BUMS! Joinfortmill Friday #42
63-67 so four years. By 67 it was Quagmire. Captain Zero Friday #44
WW II in Europe For The US Was 1 Year: D-Day Was 1944. ColoringFool Friday #49
The American Army's air wing was fighting in Europe long before 1944, nonaa Friday #95
In 1948, Ho Chi Minh came to this country, asking for $3 million and niyad Friday #45
Ho Chi Minh warned America The Wizard Friday #55
And, in the end, we betrayed our allies. The images of April 1975 niyad Friday #65
Yes, Back When It Was Indo-China And France Was The Invader. ColoringFool Friday #48
In the 1950s The Wizard Friday #51
I'm not old enough to remember the beginnings, but I remember the 60's and 70's. mommymarine2003 Friday #57
Same with Afghanistan and Iraq. But we were involved in Vietnam from WWII until the disastrous withdrawal in 1975. ChicagoTeamster Friday #68
Born April 1955 BidenRocks Friday #71
A lot of it started (shit had been going with Vietnam, France, China, and others for 100s of years) with WW II Botany Friday #72
Yes, indeed. MineralMan Friday #74
Truman was already making moves in 1950, well before Eisenhower was even elected. Celerity Friday #89
Thanks. A little before my time, I guess. MineralMan Friday #90
Old enough to proofread as well. rzemanfl Friday #77
Kind of, but Vietnam actually started for the French before the Korean War ended for us. maxrandb Friday #80
Just go back to the Iraq war -- tells you what you need to know mainer Friday #81
I would mark the beginning as 1945 when we supported France's return to their former colony. flashman13 Friday #84
"Trump will put the Navy in harms way in a completely untenable situation in the narrow seas in and around... LudwigPastorius Friday #93
They said Admiral Kacher was not a good fit. I agree with you. He was fired because he told them, "don't attack Iran". flashman13 Friday #103
😮‍💨im old enough, service brat. I remember it like it was yesterday, msfiddlestix Friday #94
Great Book - Fire In The Lake OutNow Friday #98
In 1967 Codifer Friday #99
Old enough but smoked too much pot and drank too much beer. kerry-is-my-prez Friday #100
I'm not quite that old, snot Friday #102
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