General Discussion

NNadir

(37,767 posts)

26. I have a number of monographs on the subject.

Fri Feb 27, 2026, 11:33 AM

Friday

I haven't read them in quite some time, decades actually, but as memory serves me well, the best read on the topic was Haberstam's "The Best and the Brightest" about the Kennedy cabinet Lyndon Johnson inherited. In particular, a major villain was Robert McNamara, who had no cultural or military background - he was an automotive executive - who pushed for "containment" in the aggressively cold warrior Kennedy administration.

No one in the Kennedy administration consulted with anyone who knew anything about Vietnamese culture, nor did they have a single advisor familiar with or competent in speaking or reading the Vietnamese language.

That was the problem with the "best and brightest."

Cultural myopia.

We can imagine that the current issue with Iran will be even worse with the worst and the dumbest.

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Anybody here old enough to remeber the beginnigs of US involvement in Viet Nam? [View all] 3_Limes Friday OP

The trick is to wage war without declaring war dalton99a Friday #1

Resulting in 58,000 US soldiers killed, 300,000 wounded. surfered Friday #12

+1. Saigon is now a huge modern metropolis dalton99a Friday #18

That picture is beautiful MarineCombatEngineer Friday #53

Wow! SWBTATTReg Friday #73

Ho Chi Minh City surfered Friday #105

My mind is old popsdenver Friday #25

Even the Korean War was described as a police action dalton99a Friday #30

My father served in Vietnam in 1966-67. He never forgave Johnson and McNamara. mommymarine2003 Friday #34

In December, just before the Tet occurred popsdenver Friday #40

If only your father could have known about... Chemical Bill Friday #104

Yeah, at the time, it wasn't a declared war, it was a so called police action, MarineCombatEngineer Friday #56

It was a slow process. GCG Friday #2

I saw this unfold as a young mother. My son was 3 years old. I feared the war would drag on until he was 18 and he would CTyankee Friday #10

The first US soldier killed in Vietnam Emile Friday #15

Johnson lied America into war via Gulf of Tonkin. Kid Berwyn Friday #3

Because he was lied TO by the generals Jilly_in_VA Friday #67

And the admirals, and the NSA, but most of all the CIA. Kid Berwyn Friday #75

Good old Allen Dulles Jilly_in_VA Friday #76

Maximum temperatures, please. And for John McCloy... Kid Berwyn Friday #88

You don't even have to go back that far. Ritabert Friday #4

+1 dalton99a Friday #6

Balloon the debt, it did popsdenver Friday #29

Ah yes, you're bringing back memories PatSeg Friday #36

I bring up current things popsdenver Friday #43

Not everyone is paying close attention PatSeg Friday #58

I've been paying attention since 1969. Reagan really made me pay attention. Ritabert Friday #63

I remember we paid a lot of attention PatSeg Friday #83

I didn't realize what Reagan and his minions were up to until later... Ritabert Friday #97

It is often different when you right in the middle of it PatSeg Friday #101

You are so right. Ritabert Friday #60

Liars all. Ritabert Friday #59

you took the words off my keyboard WhiteTara Friday #39

The reason we are in the economic mess we're in. Ritabert Friday #62

+1 leftstreet Friday #52

After Vietnam divided in half in the '50s the US provided financial support to the south, Ocelot II Friday #5

I thought Eisenhower had *advisors* in Vietnam during his administration at the request of the French Deuxcents Friday #78

He did. Kennedy started the escalation. Ocelot II Friday #82

Truman started that in 1950. Celerity Friday #87

November 1, 1955 "the official beginning of American involvement in the war" muriel_volestrangler Friday #96

Guess I didn't really ask the right question. 3_Limes Friday #7

Maybe on February 27, 1968: Ocelot II Friday #17

It was probably around that time, PatSeg Friday #38

That' was definitely the time Jilly_in_VA Friday #69

I was in college 1967-1971. There were anti war and civil rights protests all the time. I remember things gaining steam KitFox Friday #37

I started college in 1965 and I had a roommate who was already into the antiwar movement. Ocelot II Friday #41

I cannot speak for the average American but... 303squadron Friday #66

Don't have to look that far back. haele Friday #8

True! Iraq is probably a much better example 3_Limes Friday #11

I remember discussing in in my "Problems of Democracy" class in High Schol Mossfern Friday #9

LOL Moss popsdenver Friday #47

If there's one thing we've learned, we cannot trust anything JD Vance says. surfered Friday #13

Yes, I remember, MarineCombatEngineer Friday #14

Piece of Cake! BidenRocks Friday #61

Excellent!!! MarineCombatEngineer Friday #64

I hate to even think this MCE popsdenver Friday #92

When they asked me to reenlist or extend my enlistment I was told that they wouldn't send me to Vietnam. Ping Tung Friday #16

From one Marine to another... MarineCombatEngineer Friday #46

There was a general I admired. Remember him? Ping Tung Friday #85

Gen. David M. Shoup, there's a name I haven't heard in ages, MarineCombatEngineer Friday #86

His name just came to my brain while going through this thread. I vaguely recall his name because Ping Tung Friday #91

family legend- mopinko Friday #19

why does they agresser side always say ," it will be over in a few weeKs" but in reality war would last 3/4 years or AllaN01Bear Friday #20

The reason is oil or some other resource. multigraincracker Friday #22

It was quagmire before the US became involved. Layzeebeaver Friday #21

+1 dalton99a Friday #24

The movie We Were Soldiers opening depicts the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu. MarineCombatEngineer Friday #50

We had military advisors in VietNam since the eaerly 50's. patphil Friday #23

I have a number of monographs on the subject. NNadir Friday #26

Errol Morris' documentary "The Fog of War" covers this really well. Ocelot II Friday #28

Not really an answer to your question but... llmart Friday #27

And we'll be greeted as liberators and heroes, right? Xavier Breath Friday #31

Unlike 1965, a large percentage of people know the real reason for this current BS war. Crowman2009 Friday #32

I remember JFK snowybirdie Friday #33

The US had advisors there from the early 50's, including when the French niyad Friday #54

Ah yes Jilly_in_VA Friday #70

I just posted before I saw yours..Eisenhower had advisors in Vietnam at the request of the French Deuxcents Friday #79

Added to that, the most recent protracted wars are still fresh in people's memories. Crowman2009 Friday #35

VOTE. IMPEACH. CHARGE. PROSECUTE. CONVICT. EVERY DAMN ONE OF THESE BUMS! Joinfortmill Friday #42

63-67 so four years. By 67 it was Quagmire. Captain Zero Friday #44

WW II in Europe For The US Was 1 Year: D-Day Was 1944. ColoringFool Friday #49

The American Army's air wing was fighting in Europe long before 1944, nonaa Friday #95

In 1948, Ho Chi Minh came to this country, asking for $3 million and niyad Friday #45

Ho Chi Minh warned America The Wizard Friday #55

And, in the end, we betrayed our allies. The images of April 1975 niyad Friday #65

Yes, Back When It Was Indo-China And France Was The Invader. ColoringFool Friday #48

In the 1950s The Wizard Friday #51

I'm not old enough to remember the beginnings, but I remember the 60's and 70's. mommymarine2003 Friday #57

Same with Afghanistan and Iraq. But we were involved in Vietnam from WWII until the disastrous withdrawal in 1975. ChicagoTeamster Friday #68

Born April 1955 BidenRocks Friday #71

A lot of it started (shit had been going with Vietnam, France, China, and others for 100s of years) with WW II Botany Friday #72

Yes, indeed. MineralMan Friday #74

Truman was already making moves in 1950, well before Eisenhower was even elected. Celerity Friday #89

Thanks. A little before my time, I guess. MineralMan Friday #90

Old enough to proofread as well. rzemanfl Friday #77

Kind of, but Vietnam actually started for the French before the Korean War ended for us. maxrandb Friday #80

Just go back to the Iraq war -- tells you what you need to know mainer Friday #81

I would mark the beginning as 1945 when we supported France's return to their former colony. flashman13 Friday #84

"Trump will put the Navy in harms way in a completely untenable situation in the narrow seas in and around... LudwigPastorius Friday #93

They said Admiral Kacher was not a good fit. I agree with you. He was fired because he told them, "don't attack Iran". flashman13 Friday #103

😮‍💨im old enough, service brat. I remember it like it was yesterday, msfiddlestix Friday #94

Great Book - Fire In The Lake OutNow Friday #98

In 1967 Codifer Friday #99

Old enough but smoked too much pot and drank too much beer. kerry-is-my-prez Friday #100

I'm not quite that old, snot Friday #102