General Discussion

Last edited Sat Dec 13, 2025, 01:04 PM - Edit history (1)

When I said "Obama, Biden, Bill & Hillary" the connectors (, and &) were meant as logical ANDs, not a logical ORs. IOW, it should be read as "Obama + Biden + Bill + Hillary + Epstein". For some reason you misread my ampersand, which is normally read as AND, which implies everything earlier separated by commas should be interpreted also as AND.

So releasing a pic of Bill and Epstein alone is not what I meant, therefore it does not "damage my hypothetical". I specific meant Republicans releasing a pic of a group of prominent Dems, 3 of which we can all safely assume of no wrongdoing around Epstein, but that doesn't mean there might be not be some picture somewhere of any number of them with Epstein, esp. because Epstein was big into charity stuff. He actually was a fairly generous philanthropist, despite his other glaring faults.

What I'm on about really comes down to is that I personally have a strong sense of Justice, which has two applications to this situation.

The first is, I want to see the *actual* criminals held accountable. If someone broke the law, go after them, right? But these actions of dumping all his emails and yesterday a bunch of photos of people with him is deeply unsatisfying to me. It's just voyeurism masquerading as "actually doing something" to my mind.

In the case of the emails, we have no idea how they were curated. Neither who did it, nor how they chose to what to leave in, right? But we can probably safely assume that if there were any that were part of any ongoing criminal investigation, they were likely withheld. Like, we the public were never going to get the "real goods", so the whole exercise just feels kinda pointless. All we got was a small handful of people we could point at and go "WHY WERE THEY STILL TALKING TO EPSTEIN!?!". That's deeply unsatisfying to me & NOT Justice. It's just voyeurism, and mob justice.

As an aside if one presumes that every email was really released a couple weeks back, then MANY people should seriously be questioning the presumptions they've made WRT there being some big group of people who were aware what Epstein was up to, that people were being extorted, that their was a bunch of "clients" or an "Epstein List", because there was NO evidence of anything like that contained in the emails

Which is a possibility that I've long considered, and in fact lean towards, but that's not the conclusion so many others have been led to. You can see it here everyday, with wide swaths of people 100% convinced there was a giant cabal of "wealthy customers" who were part of some organized pedo ring where everyone knew what each other was up to, and they are acting in unison to threaten the victims, committing "money laundering" crimes, and had Epstein whacked in jail, to name a few among the many adjacent components to many people's conspiracy theories about Epstein. The fact is: NOTHING in the emails supported any of those CT's

But if one still supports these theories, the only possible explanation as to why there was nothing incriminating along those lines in the emails has to be "well, that stuff was purposefully left out/hidden from us", right? So, I posit to you that if we're not going to get "everything", then what is the point of us getting "anything"? So we can point fingers at people who we have NO IDEA whether they were involved in the crimes, nor even if they had any knowledge of them that they failed to report? I don't find that "fair', it rubs me the wrong way, and offends my sense of justice.

So that leads to my second point: I think it's bullshit for Congress to be messing with the lives of people who broke no laws (that we know of). As I say I'm no Summers fan, I don't know anything about VI congressional rep other than it appears she is/was a Democrat and has at least at some point in the past, gone after Trump. Ergo, my consternation about their emails being exposed is purely based on principle. I hate that I'm kinda sounding like I'm on Trump's side on this somewhat, but assure you my reasons for taking a similar position is entirely different from his. It feels wrong to me to expose people's private emails and cause them to lose their jobs over simply "talking to Epstein". It's not real justice, it's mob justice. I disagree with the premise that Congress should be doing that.

But that is MY OPINION, it's just how I'm wired. I don't like "guilt by association", I want to know if someone really did something illegal, and if so, hold them accountable. I would include in that set any person who knew what Epstein was up to and said nothing. If there was a Summers (or other persons) email that proved that they knew what he was doing with minors, back in the day before so much was public, THAT I think the public deserves to see. Even if it might not technically be illegal if someone knows and doesn't report it (not sure on that question actually), it still crosses the threshold for me that they deserve a public upbraiding over it. I would have no issue with Congress releasing a private email that conclusively proved THAT about Summers, or anyone else.

Which brings me to my last point: Trump KNEW. That is why he made that drawing in the birthday card. Personally my theory is that this card was actually meant as a blackmail threat, because Epstein knew that Trump was laundering Russian mob money through his FL properties (which Epstein did know). So the gist of it to my mind was actually "you keep my secrets (money laundering) and I'll keep yours (paying minors for sex)". Not "oooh, we have a mutual secret of banging kids". It was mob boss extortion shit.

But that theory is not super-relevant here. The drawing, of the underdeveloped female body, to my mind PROVES he knew. Plus he didn't just have a casual acquaintance with Epstein. He fucking KNEW, I'm absolutely convinced of that. So that, along with the fact that there's already dozens of pics of Trump/Epstein/Maxwell out there, everyone already knows they were friends for years, AND the fact that he is POTUS creates a clearly defined public interest in his relation with JE/GM.

Combined, those reasons are why I declare Trump "fair game", since you seemed interested in what my proposed standards are. Larry Summers OTOH does not meet similar evidentiary or public interest standards.

Hopefully you can see now that I put thought into my, yes, opinions on the subject, and that there are not really any glaring logical consistencies therein, at least not that I'm seeing. BUT I'm not insisting everyone else agree with my opinion, I'm aware there are valid opposing "takes" to what I'm saying here and my stance on the subject.