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cab67

(3,593 posts)
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 12:05 PM Dec 6

What's happening in Norman is an outrage. [View all]

Last edited Sat Dec 6, 2025, 06:08 PM - Edit history (2)

First, some disclosure - I have connections to the University of Oklahoma. My maternal grandparents were both OU alums, and I still have relatives living in the OKC and Norman areas. My mother, in spite of having gone to the University of Kansas, was a lifelong Sooner fan. It caused a conflict when I went to the University of Texas for graduate school.

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Some of you have no doubt followed this story. An OU student was asked to critique an article in her psychology class that discussed the interplay between transgender youth and peer pressure. She and her classmates were given very specific instructions to follow when writing their critique.

She followed none of them. Instead, her response was a straight-up sermon on why her interpretation of the Bible sets fixed genders we're required to follow.

She got a 0 on the paper. And the instructor went way above and beyond by providing a lengthy explanation for why the paper earned no points. The instructor made it clear that the student's opinions, in and of themselves, were irrelevant. The problem was the student's disregard for the instructions she was provided. This instructor also asked another instructor to evaluate the paper, and the second instructor concurred.

Did the student sit down with the instructor to discuss the result? Nope. She screamed from the highest heights about being persecuted. She even wrote to the governor of Oklahoma. State legislators have spoken up, and most of them have come across as seriously uninformed about the issue. Worse, OU appears to be backing down, even putting the instructor on leave.

Here's the thing - the student wasn't dinged because of her opinions. She was dinged because she didn't follow the instructions. Don't believe me? Both the article assigned to the class and the student's paper can be viewed online, as can the instructor's response to the student explaining the score. Any objective reader can see that the student simply didn't follow instructions - none of which, by the way, required a student to agree with anything in the article.

I've been approached by students who've expressed discomfort at some of the subjects I teach, either for political or religious reasons. Here's what I tell them - I can't require any student to actually believe or agree with anything I say. I can only require that they understand it. Hence, if I ask a question about evolution or climate change and the student simply puts down "I don't believe in this stuff, it's an atheistic or communist lie," I'd mark it wrong. But if the student says "I don't believe in this stuff, it's an atheistic or communist lie, but the answer you're looking for is the following...." and then proceeds to provide the correct answer, that's full credit. I hold students accountable for how well they grasp what I'm teaching, not for their personal beliefs about it.

I understand the pressure universities are under - especially in red states. I teach at a public university in a red state. Still, I would have hoped that in this case, the president of OU, Joseph Harroz, could have been a voice of clarity and honesty. He could have defended the professionalism of the instructor, who went way beyond what most instructors would have done to cover her bases and make the reasons for the zero-credit assessment fully clear and transparent. He could have explained that OU is a public university open to students of all faiths, and that free expression of that faith is the right of every student, but that students are still expected to be, you know, students. That means following instructions on assignments if they want to succeed. It doesn't mean holding back on their views - had I been the instructor, I'd have been totally cool if this student had added a paragraph explaining why they firmly believe sexes to be strictly binary and fixed - but it does mean facing views that differ from yours and addressing them not as abominations to be dismissed without reason, but as concepts that should be handled with deliberation and thought.

And it goes without saying that OU should reinstate this instructor and provide a huge apology to her.

Those who are claiming a student who didn't follow instructions is being persecuted only for her beliefs are doing her no favors whatsoever.

68 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The race for stupidity is led by MAGA. If the MAGA Nazis take full control anyone with an education is at risk. dem4decades Dec 6 #1
To be fair... cab67 Dec 6 #2
I wasn't calling her stupid, though she may be, I'm calling a movement that politicizes science stupid. dem4decades Dec 6 #4
righto cab67 Dec 6 #5
I'd send her to the school psychologist or slightlv Dec 6 #37
And just like a lot of religions, AND corporations, popsdenver Dec 6 #8
I've always thought the monotone drone of the orange oaf is also a form of hypnotizing... blue_jay Dec 6 #28
Be sure to include popsdenver Dec 6 #30
Was the student in question BOSSHOG Dec 6 #3
This x1000!!! slightlv Dec 6 #38
Very badly written essay, full of circular logic, no evidence cited IronLionZion Dec 6 #6
And no student in college level essay or research writing is allowed to use the Bible as a reference, only ancianita Dec 6 #11
MAGAts do their own research, on Youtube or blogs or podcasts IronLionZion Dec 6 #35
maybe they'll go real deep Quanto Magnus Dec 6 #51
That's not an essay. That's a carnival tent sermon. n/t DFW Dec 6 #17
Sure looks like a set up to me, just a wee bit too convenient to be otherwise nt blue_jay Dec 6 #29
The brainwashing of women in christian communities is thriving blue_jay Dec 6 #31
God wrote it. It's God's will! IronLionZion Dec 6 #33
She wasn't failed for "quoting the Bible." Insert eyeroll here. n/t Beartracks Dec 6 #42
Correct. TPUSA lied in their headline post and posted the evidence of their lies IronLionZion Dec 6 #44
I like how the headline says it was an "opinion essay" -- when the assignment was NOT for that! Beartracks Dec 6 #53
OU has now removed a SECOND instructor KatyaR Dec 6 #7
"Forget it, Jake. It's Oklahoma." regnaD kciN Dec 6 #18
The Standard MAGA One Verse Beat Down is.... Mustellus Dec 6 #9
More to the point... regnaD kciN Dec 6 #20
Hmm, interesting point. "Male and female"... Beartracks Dec 6 #43
Congrats on your decision to do grad work at UT. (nt) Paladin Dec 6 #10
OU's president was a former intern of David Boren! SouthBayDem Dec 6 #12
to be as fair as I can be.... cab67 Dec 6 #23
Thanks for pointing this out ShazzieB Dec 6 #25
It is happening at The University of Oklahoma in Norman, not Oklahoma State. redstatebluegirl Dec 8 #67
Yes, I know. ShazzieB Dec 9 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Dec 6 #13
Good Lord (so to speak) DET Dec 6 #14
She's pre-med (believe it or not)... regnaD kciN Dec 6 #21
I hope no medical school accepts her IzzaNuDay Dec 7 #66
i read her paper. barbtries Dec 6 #15
Saw Kyle Kulinski cover this D_Master81 Dec 6 #16
Why is she even in a pysch class? Psychology, to these people, is simply a modern day excuse for demons. slightlv Dec 6 #39
Required. Jilly_in_VA Dec 6 #45
Boy, things sure changed since I was in school! slightlv Dec 6 #52
Kicked and recommended Uncle Joe Dec 6 #19
My wife is computer science professor in a red state Diraven Dec 6 #22
In defense of soldierant Dec 6 #24
That means they'd have to go beyond what their parents slightlv Dec 6 #40
?Rxactly. But I can dream, can't I? soldierant Dec 6 #41
So any student can answer exam questions and write papers full of Bible BS. Irish_Dem Dec 6 #26
i may have been a smart ass in school rampartd Dec 6 #27
K&R Solly Mack Dec 6 #32
Good luck with a science based career like medicine. 3catwoman3 Dec 6 #34
As one being born in OK, but now a long-term MO resident, this disappoints me terribly about how OK is viewed. SWBTATTReg Dec 6 #36
Why do I feel like Jilly_in_VA Dec 6 #46
Yup. Wednesdays Dec 7 #58
Maybe she's been selected as President JD Vance's replacement wife Nt lostnfound Dec 7 #62
I agree with you. Sparkly Dec 6 #47
Did you apply to other programs? cab67 Dec 6 #48
No. Sparkly Dec 6 #50
Admissions decisions aren't always up to a potential advisor. cab67 Dec 6 #55
Oklahoma is a lost cause Puppyjive Dec 6 #49
maddening. the inmates are running the asylum Takket Dec 6 #54
I agree jfz9580m Dec 6 #56
It's entitlement that's what it is jfz9580m Dec 6 #57
I'm not going to claim I know how to write a college paper since I never went to college, but.... tornado34jh Dec 7 #59
The key is, make your tests challenging enough so AdamGG Dec 7 #60
I received my PhD from OU róisín_dubh Dec 7 #61
from my reading markie Dec 7 #63
Hemant Mehta of The Friendly Atheist did a deeper dive on this... ColoradoHoosier Dec 7 #64
Thank you cab67. Stay strong. Clouds Passing Dec 7 #65
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