Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
Showing Original Post only (View all)The Real Reason for the Trump-Musk Feud is Uglier Than You Think (Greg Sargent, The New Republic) + Tomasky [View all]
(Note: There are excerpts from two TNR pieces here - the first by Greg Sargent, the second by Michael Tomasky, which I decided to add after realizing how well it fit with what Sargent wrote.)https://newrepublic.com/article/196246/real-reason-trump-musk-feud-uglier
-snip-
For one thing, both view the state largely as something to capture for themselvesMusk to gain support for his Promethean schemes for the future of humanity, and Trump to engage in world-historical self-dealing and corruption. This was neatly captured by Trumps threat to cancel Musks federal contracts. Musks visions for space travel and electric vehicles have benefited enormously from federal support over the years. His achievements might not exist without the U.S. state. Yet Musks DOGEwith its assault on science, universities, and research and developmentwould dramatically downsize the states role in enabling the future flourishing of countless Americans and in keeping total immiseration and death at bay for the poorest of the poor. As Michelle Goldberg notes, the DOGE boys showed zero curiosity about who is being helped by all that foreign aid, and how.
Musk does have some sort of vision of future human flourishing. But he often talks about keeping alive the human consciousness, an oddly cold concept that doesnt really depend on making the whole world a better and fairer place for living, breathing human beings. It could be kept alive by a select fewsome of them on a faraway planet like, say, Marsonce the civilizational dead weight were systematically abandoned, as cutting foreign aid seems like a first step toward doing.
Meanwhile, to Trump, everything involving the state is up for corrupt horse trading and for punishing and extorting enemies. So his immediate instinct was to threaten Musks contracts, which Trump can only understand as a form of self-dealing by Muskone that Trump can take away in a grand dominance display.
-snip-
In the end, Musk would use deficit fears to gut the state more thoroughly than Trump would, while Trump seems more focused on dramatically reducing the tax burden of the wealthy and slashing the safety net to pay for it. They are at odds, but mainly because they merely fall at different places on the same spectrum of impulses. And those impulses all tilt toward the same placetoward making our society a less egalitarian, more unequal, meaner, crueler, and much more savage place.
For one thing, both view the state largely as something to capture for themselvesMusk to gain support for his Promethean schemes for the future of humanity, and Trump to engage in world-historical self-dealing and corruption. This was neatly captured by Trumps threat to cancel Musks federal contracts. Musks visions for space travel and electric vehicles have benefited enormously from federal support over the years. His achievements might not exist without the U.S. state. Yet Musks DOGEwith its assault on science, universities, and research and developmentwould dramatically downsize the states role in enabling the future flourishing of countless Americans and in keeping total immiseration and death at bay for the poorest of the poor. As Michelle Goldberg notes, the DOGE boys showed zero curiosity about who is being helped by all that foreign aid, and how.
Musk does have some sort of vision of future human flourishing. But he often talks about keeping alive the human consciousness, an oddly cold concept that doesnt really depend on making the whole world a better and fairer place for living, breathing human beings. It could be kept alive by a select fewsome of them on a faraway planet like, say, Marsonce the civilizational dead weight were systematically abandoned, as cutting foreign aid seems like a first step toward doing.
Meanwhile, to Trump, everything involving the state is up for corrupt horse trading and for punishing and extorting enemies. So his immediate instinct was to threaten Musks contracts, which Trump can only understand as a form of self-dealing by Muskone that Trump can take away in a grand dominance display.
-snip-
In the end, Musk would use deficit fears to gut the state more thoroughly than Trump would, while Trump seems more focused on dramatically reducing the tax burden of the wealthy and slashing the safety net to pay for it. They are at odds, but mainly because they merely fall at different places on the same spectrum of impulses. And those impulses all tilt toward the same placetoward making our society a less egalitarian, more unequal, meaner, crueler, and much more savage place.
They're both monsters. They both have to be stopped.
Michael Tomasky has some excellent descriptions of them in another new piece for TNR today:
https://newrepublic.com/article/196244/musk-trump-leverage-takedown-feud
For starters, I say Donald Trump is due our congratulations and respect. He finally found a white Afrikaner hed like to throw out of the country.
The early conventional wisdom on the Trump-Elon Musk divorce is that it was simultaneously shocking and inevitable. I suppose it was both of those thingsMusks fusillade of tweets Thursday was pretty shocking, especially the Jeffrey Epstein bomb; and its true that this was bound to happen one dayno friendship between a ketamine-torqued egomaniac and a sociopathic liar with the emotional architecture of a 5-year-old is destined to go the distance.
Taking a somewhat more historical perspective, this is the feud that Milton Friedmans America deserves. Weve now lived through decades in which vast fortunes were amassed and lionizedand, importantly, at least in Trumps case, inherited and far too lightly taxed. Fred Trump gave Donald over $400 million, adjusting for inflation, when he died in 1999. Errol Musk was an emerald-mine magnate who once bragged that he had so much money we couldnt even close our safe, though the extent to which he supported his son is a matter of heated debate (between them, mostly). Whatever the truth is there, the bottom line is that here we are, stuck with a crooked and stupid billionaire president and a crazed narcissist who could buy several countries fighting over which one has the purer, more Friedmansque-reactionary vision for what the United States should become.
-snip-
But any eulogy for this relationship must first and foremost be a eulogy for the United States of America. An amoral billionaire who by rights should have been impeached and barred from running for office for life became president againlegitimately this time, as far as we knowand put the worlds richest multibillionaire in charge of a sensitive task that he oversaw with the delicacy of a hyena stripping a wildebeest carcass clean. Their efforts have already resulted in deaths around the globe and will cause untold harm in this country over time.
-snip-
The early conventional wisdom on the Trump-Elon Musk divorce is that it was simultaneously shocking and inevitable. I suppose it was both of those thingsMusks fusillade of tweets Thursday was pretty shocking, especially the Jeffrey Epstein bomb; and its true that this was bound to happen one dayno friendship between a ketamine-torqued egomaniac and a sociopathic liar with the emotional architecture of a 5-year-old is destined to go the distance.
Taking a somewhat more historical perspective, this is the feud that Milton Friedmans America deserves. Weve now lived through decades in which vast fortunes were amassed and lionizedand, importantly, at least in Trumps case, inherited and far too lightly taxed. Fred Trump gave Donald over $400 million, adjusting for inflation, when he died in 1999. Errol Musk was an emerald-mine magnate who once bragged that he had so much money we couldnt even close our safe, though the extent to which he supported his son is a matter of heated debate (between them, mostly). Whatever the truth is there, the bottom line is that here we are, stuck with a crooked and stupid billionaire president and a crazed narcissist who could buy several countries fighting over which one has the purer, more Friedmansque-reactionary vision for what the United States should become.
-snip-
But any eulogy for this relationship must first and foremost be a eulogy for the United States of America. An amoral billionaire who by rights should have been impeached and barred from running for office for life became president againlegitimately this time, as far as we knowand put the worlds richest multibillionaire in charge of a sensitive task that he oversaw with the delicacy of a hyena stripping a wildebeest carcass clean. Their efforts have already resulted in deaths around the globe and will cause untold harm in this country over time.
-snip-
58 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Real Reason for the Trump-Musk Feud is Uglier Than You Think (Greg Sargent, The New Republic) + Tomasky [View all]
highplainsdem
Jun 2025
OP
"this is the feud that Milton Friedman's America deserves." YES!! Lay it on the doorstep of the house that brought it !
eppur_se_muova
Jun 2025
#4
Enjoy your description of the people producing products - machines - software. "Only dividends count"
erronis
Jun 2025
#24
Psychopaths don't like people. They use people and commit crimes against them.
Irish_Dem
Jun 2025
#29
Yes they are textbook and if I was teaching an Abnormal Psych class I would use them as examples.
Irish_Dem
Jun 2025
#33
Two drug addicted narcissistic psychopaths were bound to blow up things including each other.
Irish_Dem
Jun 2025
#28
Death is the great equalizer. The poorest and the richest become equally dead.
multigraincracker
Jun 2025
#12
Everyone calls Elon Musk the "richest man in the world" but is it really true?
FakeNoose
Jun 2025
#19
Forbes and Bloomberg go through the analyses to determine that title. But garbage
allegorical oracle
Jun 2025
#32
The sun dying or better going red giant is billions of years in the future
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
Jun 2025
#40
There are some things that are so blatant that there is no excuse for ignoring them.
Bluetus
Jun 2025
#45
Defenintly keep us posted! I don't know who will be able to enforce something like this..
FirstLight
Jun 2025
#53