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In reply to the discussion: The Democratic party needs to embrace open competition for leadership of the party. [View all]Oopsie Daisy
(4,950 posts)49. No, that's not what you're calling for.
>>So, more competition in primaries is akin to "Shitting on Democrats and bad-mouthing our party"
Yes. Exactly right. What you have in mind, and what you're calling for amplification of the myth that all of our loyal and competent Democrats are somehow NOT WORTHY of being supported and that they must ALL be subject to senseless and risky primaries. That is the definition of shitting on Democrats and bad-mouthing our party.
The scenario you imagine is not based in reality. The wholesale primarying of incumbents is a fantasy version of politics that only harms stalwart and experienced Democrats, and creates unnecessary division. It perpetuates the lie that every Democrat must pass some sort of "vermont-style" purity test in order to be worthy of serving. That's just complete nonsense.
We need EXPERIENCED leaders in Washington and in our State Houses. The notion of "firing them all" and sending a fresh crop of newbies is absurd. It just doesn't work that way. Plus... on top of that... it will never happen. But in the meantime, those who call for this to take place are perpetuating the myth that all Democrats are somehow "corrupt" or "oligarchs" or "beholden to corporations" or "incompetent" or "too old".
Whenever I hear someone continually gripe about being in opposition to giving a "free pass" that is a big clue that they're an unrealistic and impatient voter, that they want instant results, that they're not willing to compromise, and that any compromise is a sign of weakness (even if it gets us closer to the goals that we seek). The "throw the bums out" philosophy denies our representatives the chance to build coalitions and partnerships, learn the ropes, and get a complete understanding of the legal, legislative, political, and interpersonal dynamics of Washington.
I call it VALUABLE EXPERIENCE, but I suspect that the most cynical and impatient ones among us will deny the importance of experience and connections... and they'll choose to denigrate the Democrat by accusing them of being a "beltway insider" and being detached from the plight of the common-man.
A smarter strategy is one that helps to DEFEAT VULNERABLE REPUBLICANS. A smarter strategy is one that helps to WEAKEN REPUBLICANS and replace them Democrats (preferably) or at the very least, replaces them with someone who's not an insane MAGA Republican. (See? I'm realistic. I see that even in areas that we cannot win, at least having a "normal" Republican can be better than a MAGA republican, and I'd consider that to be kind-of a win... or at least one where compromise and finding common ground is a possibility.)
Fortunately, I am not one of those hyper-idealistic voters who believe that all politics is like a round-robin sporting event. And, as I've mentioned before (but you fail to acknowledge) unnecessary primaries cost money (that could otherwise be used to help defeat the Republican) and they cost political capital too (when the loser or said primary, or the supporters of said loser are unable to get over their disappointment). It's NOT a unifying plan that you have in mind. It's expensive and divisive.
It's one thing to have high standards and high hopes... but those things are only meaningful when paired with a strategy that exists OUTSIDE of the world of unicorns and rainbows.
Yes. Exactly right. What you have in mind, and what you're calling for amplification of the myth that all of our loyal and competent Democrats are somehow NOT WORTHY of being supported and that they must ALL be subject to senseless and risky primaries. That is the definition of shitting on Democrats and bad-mouthing our party.
The scenario you imagine is not based in reality. The wholesale primarying of incumbents is a fantasy version of politics that only harms stalwart and experienced Democrats, and creates unnecessary division. It perpetuates the lie that every Democrat must pass some sort of "vermont-style" purity test in order to be worthy of serving. That's just complete nonsense.
We need EXPERIENCED leaders in Washington and in our State Houses. The notion of "firing them all" and sending a fresh crop of newbies is absurd. It just doesn't work that way. Plus... on top of that... it will never happen. But in the meantime, those who call for this to take place are perpetuating the myth that all Democrats are somehow "corrupt" or "oligarchs" or "beholden to corporations" or "incompetent" or "too old".
Whenever I hear someone continually gripe about being in opposition to giving a "free pass" that is a big clue that they're an unrealistic and impatient voter, that they want instant results, that they're not willing to compromise, and that any compromise is a sign of weakness (even if it gets us closer to the goals that we seek). The "throw the bums out" philosophy denies our representatives the chance to build coalitions and partnerships, learn the ropes, and get a complete understanding of the legal, legislative, political, and interpersonal dynamics of Washington.
I call it VALUABLE EXPERIENCE, but I suspect that the most cynical and impatient ones among us will deny the importance of experience and connections... and they'll choose to denigrate the Democrat by accusing them of being a "beltway insider" and being detached from the plight of the common-man.
A smarter strategy is one that helps to DEFEAT VULNERABLE REPUBLICANS. A smarter strategy is one that helps to WEAKEN REPUBLICANS and replace them Democrats (preferably) or at the very least, replaces them with someone who's not an insane MAGA Republican. (See? I'm realistic. I see that even in areas that we cannot win, at least having a "normal" Republican can be better than a MAGA republican, and I'd consider that to be kind-of a win... or at least one where compromise and finding common ground is a possibility.)
Fortunately, I am not one of those hyper-idealistic voters who believe that all politics is like a round-robin sporting event. And, as I've mentioned before (but you fail to acknowledge) unnecessary primaries cost money (that could otherwise be used to help defeat the Republican) and they cost political capital too (when the loser or said primary, or the supporters of said loser are unable to get over their disappointment). It's NOT a unifying plan that you have in mind. It's expensive and divisive.
It's one thing to have high standards and high hopes... but those things are only meaningful when paired with a strategy that exists OUTSIDE of the world of unicorns and rainbows.
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The Democratic party needs to embrace open competition for leadership of the party. [View all]
Yavin4
Jan 16
OP
It's not always good. Hard to find the positives in Ted Kennedy's 1980 challenge to President Carter.
tritsofme
Jan 16
#1
Right you are, and for those who are too young to remember, Carter's defeat led to the most Right Wing lurch with
msfiddlestix
Jan 17
#57
I agree 100%. Just because he has gray hair and some years under his belt doesn't mean he's a dinosaur.
BComplex
Jan 17
#14
Competition opens the soft underbelly to dilution of the brand and ideology
bucolic_frolic
Jan 16
#3
LOL! I blame the ones who wanted to "punish" the party by not voting rather than voting for the BEST candidate.
Oopsie Daisy
Jan 16
#8
I'm telling like it is. In addition to the "saboteurs" who chose self-harm to prove their piety...
Oopsie Daisy
Jan 17
#15
It's incorrect to call it annointing. In the real world, WINNING and gaining the MAJORITY are of the utmost importance.
Oopsie Daisy
Jan 17
#24
You keep talking as if the party hasn't been doing exactly what you're saying for years now.
Yavin4
Jan 17
#41
So, more competition in primaries is akin to "Shitting on Democrats and bad-mouthing our party"
Yavin4
Jan 17
#47
Any politician worth his or her salt should be able to easily defeat a primary challenger.
Yavin4
Jan 17
#60
As I've said being "worth one's salt" does not mean endless supplies of cash.
Oopsie Daisy
Jan 17
#62
You don't stand for anything by allowing the principles of the party to be destroyed.
bucolic_frolic
Jan 17
#18
The strategy of "let's suppress younger leaders and then get mad when young people don't vote for us"
Yavin4
Jan 17
#42
Nobody is doing that. That's nobody's "strategy" and saying it is only HURTS DEMOCRATS.
Oopsie Daisy
Jan 17
#55
What principles would be destroyed by opening the leadership competition to younger Dems?
TheRickles
Jan 17
#51
Good lord. Why spend time depleting the campaign funds of incumbents so that they can be out spent by Republicans?
Oopsie Daisy
Jan 16
#6
Educating them DOES work. Why would anyone be opposed to educating the voting populace?
Oopsie Daisy
Jan 17
#56
I feel like I need to get out my BINGO CARD when threads and posts like this one come around.
Oopsie Daisy
Jan 17
#35
It may be worth considering the immediate future of the other party in the short term.
taxi
Jan 17
#16
Relying on the Republican Party to screw up and consequently winning by default seems to have been the Democratic
Midwestern Democrat
Jan 19
#74
The failure of your rationale here is believing that it was Schumer/Pelosi that prevented anyone else from running...
W_HAMILTON
Jan 17
#43
The fact that Obama became the nominee in 2008 shows that the process is at least somewhat open
karynnj
Jan 17
#32
The best way to get "people willing to do whatever it takes to fucking WIN" is through competitive primaries.
Yavin4
Jan 17
#38
We need a leader who will take the leadership away from the left-wing media.
everyonematters
Jan 17
#64