Palestinian Christians living in this country. The stories about their families abuse by the IDF and Settlers is heartbreaking.

Rec

Not all Israelis and not all Jews are hateful of course, but for so many years they have only heard Netanyahu and nobody else. It worked for Hitler....

The statement that "for so many years they have only heard Netanyahu and nobody else" is breathtakingly false.

I am not Jewish but I have known Jewish people all my life, and almost without exception those American Jews I know have been protesting Israel's actions, beginning long before Netanyahu took office.

I know a handful of scientists in Israel and they don't agree with Netanyahu and didn't vote for him.

How would you like it if somebody in another country, who never visited the U.S. and knew very little of our history, said:

I also have mqany friends who are Catholics or former Catholics. I'm not sure why this matters.

I see just the opposite, not just on DU but on other progressive parts of the internet, and certainly in real life in my blue community.

Please name three American films in the past 25 years that have portrayed Israelis as the villains.

The past 50 years?

American films critical of Israel:

Munich (2005): Directed by Steven Spielberg, this historical drama follows a group of Mossad assassins tasked with hunting down the Palestinians responsible for the Munich Olympic massacre. The film does not cast Israelis as classic villains, but it portrays their retaliatory actions with deep moral ambiguity, showing how the cycle of violence compromises the characters' humanity.

The Other Son (2012): This French-American co-production explores the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through the story of two young men—one Israeli, one Palestinian—who discover they were accidentally switched at birth. While not an action film with a "villain," the movie acts as a strong critique of the entrenched political and cultural hostilities in the region.

The Gatekeepers (2012): Although this is an American-Israeli documentary, it heavily critiques the state of Israeli policy. The film features interviews with six former heads of the Shin Bet (Israel's internal security service), who frankly discuss the ethical failures, brutality, and moral costs of Israel's military occupation.

The Hammer of Boravia in Superman (2025): Director James Gunn's Superman film drew significant cultural commentary due to its plotline. The movie features the fictional country of Boravia alongside an antagonistic military presence, which many critics and audiences interpreted as an allegorical representation of the Israel Defense Forces and the U.S.'s role in the Gaza conflict.

Looking beyond America, there are many, many recent films portraying Israel and Israelis in very negative lights.

And of course, looking at portrayals of Jewish people in film, literature, and art over hundreds of years, it's overwhelmingly negative and hateful. Check out Shakespeare's portrayal of Jews in The Merchant of Venice. Read almost any American or British novel written in the 19th or 20th century and if there's a Jewish character, they're portrayed as shifty, sly, sneaky, criminal. I'll be reading, say, a detective novel written in the mid 20th century and out of nowhere there's an evil "money lender" from "the Levant" with a "hooked nose" who is "greedily" stealing.

In the current discussion, the question is why people are blind to Israel terrorism, so we can exclude literature and media from before Israeli statehood. Not because Jews weren't persecuted; they absolutely have been--for centuries, even today. But Israel's crimes against humanity can't diminished be invoking Shylock from 400 years ago.

Now that I think of it, Watto in The Phantom Menace was criticized alternately as a stereotype of Jews and of Arabs, so there's that.

I'd also agree that Munich isn't a great example of Israelis as villains, not least because I have a hard time faulting them.

I appreciate the list that you provided. I guess the corresponding question should "how often are Muslims portrayed as terrorists in film and television?"

Direct quote of your post:

Well, there's this: how often does American media refer to "Israeli war crimes" outside of simply reporting that "South Africa accused Israel of war crimes," or the like? That is, how often does American media--on its own analysis--describe Israel as a terrorist aggressor? How often do US politicians describe Israel that way?

How often does American media do long-form exposes on the tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians slaughtered in Netanyahu's year-long campaign of deliberate civilian murder?

How often does American media discuss Israeli influence in US politics and lobbying, up to and including their role in pushing for Trump's explicitly genocidal war in Iran?

"Portraying Israel as the good guys" doesn't simply mean letting them ride in to save the day; it also means downplaying or diminishing their daily aggressions against civilians in multiple nations.

There. Now I've answered in good faith as well.

You still have not given me a single example of what you claim.

You point at "American media" which is now wholly owned by a handful of billionaires. They fired almost all their foreign correspondents years ago. The "news" they report is crap.

Likewise, you point to politicians, more than half of whom are right wing cretins. The rest are... politicians, dependent on big money for reelection especially since the SCOTUS decision Citizens United.

Now I'm done with this conversation.

The downplaying--including the dubious justification--of Israel's crimes against humanity is portraying them as the good guys.

If you don't see this--or can't acknowledge it--then you were "done with this conversation" before it began.

I’m saving it as I work on simply getting past my own personal stories and myths. I know I’m way behind, but I’ve often found my own myths to be difficult to bring out into the light of reality. Those stories are so simple and comforting. Some times I’m just too damn human.

But I appreciate fellow history buffs. On this particular topic, I usually begin with the Balfour Agreement, segue to 1948, and go from there.

is the butchery in the name of God by Christians in Europe.

Not many saints from religions.

It came in handy from the time of the Crusades to colonialist expansion - and today of course.

Historical facts are at odds with this claim. Conversion unfolded organically, mostly through trade, justice and law. It expanded far beyond the borders of the Muslim empire or political influence. No Muslim army crossed the Sahara, East Africa, Southeast Asia or China yet it spread in those places. Where Muslim armies conquered, the languages, culture and religion of the natives was left intact for generations and conversion was slow, not imposed by the "sword".

Since you raised Balfour, it is relevant to the discussion that the unilateral, imperial decision of one peer of the crumbling British Empire of the early 20th century could erase the rights and aspirations - the very existence - of the Muslim natives of that "Holy Land".

As for 1948, I have seen a lot of "misconceptions" around that fateful year too.

Islamic cultures made revolutionary advances in science, medicine, art, architecture and many of the other advances that led to a great expansion of human rights and enjoyment over the past thousand years.

Islamic people developed a numeric system without which there would have been no scientific revolution, no Industrial Revolution, certainly no computer age. Imagine a world without a numeric marker for zero. Truly the dark ages.

Modern medicine... simply would not exist without Islamic influences. And so much more.

It's sad that so few people know the history of.... everything, really. Too many Americans hear "Muslim" and they think of 9/11, the Iranian hostages, the atrocities of fundamentalist right wing Islamic dictatorships - or they view Muslims as desperately poor women in hijabs mourning their babies. None of that is close to an accurate representation of the whole of Islamic culture and history.

We would all be a lot better off if we learned about and followed the basic principles of revolutionary religions. In the case of Christianity that would mean following Jesus's directives to feed the poor, love our enemies as ourselves, turn the other cheek, and generally live a life of poverty and service. I know far less about the other religions in the world but as far as I can tell they all say about the same thing. It's sad that human vices and failings corrupt us.

"Til human voices wake us, and we drown."
-- T.S. Eliot

(By the way, Eliot wrote some very antisemitic things in his poetry, but I don't reject his art because of that. We are all very imperfect beings.)

I was born in ‘46. I grew up with the stories, true and fiction, the books, the movies etc. That morphed into “the world “ needing to make amends by making sure the Jewish people had a ‘safe’ haven. Sort of allowing the world to work off its guilt. Like most things human we seem to have pushed this story to it’s ridiculous conclusion; that we, as a world, must allow the state of Israel to do whatever it wants to ‘protect’ itself.

I'm addressing our current inability to see the irony and injustice of Israel's complete destruction of the Palestinian people and Gaza and now their neighbors in Lebanon. And I currently struggle with that dilemma. I can see it and I still can't reconcile it internally.

What are you referring to?

Kind of like blaming enslaved people for causing the Civil War. I've heard that. Or blaming President Obama for causing racism.

amazing in the worst way.

Never made sense to me, but we humans seem to be very talented at discovering ways we fear and or hate other humans. Honestly, deeply sad, not to mention a huge waste.

The governments of the world didn't set aside a tiny sliver of land as a Jewish homeland because they felt guilty or wanted to make amends.

If they felt that way, they would have opened their own countries to Jewish refugees. They didn't. It's taken 75 years and Jewish people are still trying to get back the money, art, and other belongings that were stolen from them by the Nazis and stashed in countries you're portraying as feeling guilt.

Jews were being massacred in the Middle East and had been wiped out in Europe. Half the population of an already tiny number of people were wiped out. And most of the world did not care.

Also I'm giving side eye to your comment about "true and fiction." What parts do you think are fiction?

I can’t speak to your myths.

Direct quote of your post:

7. I believe there is still a tremendous amount of guilt about what happened in WWII.
9:19 AM
I was born in ‘46. I grew up with the stories, true and fiction, the books, the movies etc. That morphed into “the world “ needing to make amends by making sure the Jewish people had a ‘safe’ haven. Sort of allowing the world to work off its guilt. Like most things human we seem to have pushed this story to it’s ridiculous conclusion; that we, as a world, must allow the state of Israel to do whatever it wants to ‘protect’ itself.

Which parts don't you believe? I'm very confused.

But I don't think you understand why I'm saying that.

The government narrative creates a pariah and the uneducated jump on the bandwagon. So many don’t see the duplicity of their leaders especially when it comes to religious dogma.

Peace ☮️

Take a look at a map of the Middle East. There are just under 10 million people living in Israel, of whom about 70% (7 million) are Jewish. Twenty percent (2 million) of Israelis are Arab.

The total population of the Middle East is about 450 million, and almost all of those are Muslim.

Let that sink in. There are seven million Jews in Israel and they are surrounded by hundreds of millions of Muslims, most of whom live in brutal dictatorships that openly call for the eradication of all Jews. Look up the number of Jewish people living in Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Iraq, Iran, etc. I'll give you a hint: it's almost zero.

The entire population of Jews in the world is under 16 million. Most nations in the world have essentially zero Jewish citizens. There are about 7 million Jews in Israel, about 6 million in the U.S., and the other 3 million are scattered here and there.

The total population of the world is about 8 billion people. Jews make up 0.001 percent of the current human population.

In the Middle East, Jews make up about 0.02 percent of the population. Many of the other 98% people in the Middle East want Israel wiped from the map (from the mountains to the sea) and they often say they want all Jews dead. This is not recent. It's the reason Israel was made a Jewish homeland. Jews living in the Middle East were being massacred during and after WWII. The Axis genocide of Jews occurred among Hitler's allies in the Middle East, not just in Europe.

Ask yourself how the U.S. would react if we were in this situation. I'll give you a hint. We invaded two countries after 9/11 - an attack that was much much smaller in scale than what Israel experiences every year.

I don't agree with Israel's approach because I think it's doomed to fail, but I can certainly understand why many Israelis keep electing hardliners like Netanyahu. Look at how many MAGATS we have in the U.S. with basically none of the provocation.

Please look up the facts yourself and check my math.

Israel deserves to be a country without fear of their neighbors. Tough to realize that dream while surrounded by Arab states. However, the brutal responses aren’t the answer…there has to be a better way. I don’t imagine that Israeli children are immune to anti Muslim propaganda…..and that continues the hate. And that also applies to the Muslim populace…….which perpetuates the violence.

What I did say is that most countries worldwide seem to have a portion of populations that they want to ostracize. Factions from within and without seek to exploit these divisions to disrupt…….perhaps for money or power; those seem to be the driving forces.

Peace ☮️

Even if the means are barbaric - even genocidal - and the ends are not what they have been propagandized to believe. We see it right here, sadly, though in diminishing numbers except for the true believers who are willing to ignore the inhumanity of the means.

Their charter calls for the eradication of all Jews in the world. I'm not an expert, but to me that sounds like a call for genocide.

The Israeli constitution does not call for the eradication of all Muslims in the world. That would be genocide.

I disagree with the current Israeli government's approach, which appears to be to eradicate everybody currently living in the Gaza Strip and West Bank and replace them with Jewish settlers. Some highly respected Jewish scholars are calling the Israeli actions genocide. Others say it does not meet the criteria for genocide, calling it a war instead. Whatever it's called, it's a bad idea and it's not working.

What I find mystifying is that you and some other DUers keep complaining about pro-Israeli propaganda and I see almost zero. I see a lot of highly coordinated pro-Palestinian pr.

You must condemn. At the very least.

You seem to see but you don't "see".

..current Israeli government's approach, which appears to be to eradicate everybody currently living in the Gaza Strip and West Bank and replace them with Jewish settlers."

That IS GENOCIDE.

But you then backtrack and call into question what your own words have just described.

Israel does not have a constitution. Respected Holocaust historian and genocide scholar Omer Bartov sees that as the problem. A constitution may have allowed Israel to become a "normal state" that provides equality to all its citizens, define its borders and acknowledge and redress the Nakba. But instead of remedying its foundational violence, modern Israel has become increasingly militaristic, expansionist, racist, and now genocidal. Gideon Levy, a thorn in the side of Netanyahu, goes even further.

You have seen this but others may find it enlightening.
https://www.democracynow.org/2026/5/15/omer_bartov_gideon_levy_israel_zionism

We could argue all day about whether Hamas is genocidal or not, it's purely theoretical (and flimsily based on one quote from the Koran, which was omitted in its revised charter as you know), unlike the real-life genocide. I find it very odd that the latter can be met with indifference while the former is brandished as some sort of justification for it.

Your last paragraph is especially heartbreaking. Such is the power of sustained, relentless propaganda on behalf of Israel, that the existence of the propaganda itself is denied.

It makes me want to cry. I truly feel a deep sadness. We are allies in everything else, and yet even now, with all the evidence before your eyes, you will not "see".

I know the Myers-Briggs personality test is flawed in many ways, but when I consistently test as an INTJ and similarly on every other personality test that's been inflicted on me during "team building" work exercises, I acknowledge a pattern. Simply put, INTJs can be real jerks. Also, I'm probably on the autism spectrum.

I am comfortable with facts and not comfortable with emotional appeals. I try hard to remember that people's feelings matter.

Digging deeply into my emotional feelings, let me say:

1. I am appalled by many of Israel's actions.

2. I am appalled by many of Hamas's actions.

3. I am appalled by how quickly people fall back on hatred, fear, and negative stereotypes of Jewish people. I expect to see that on the right. The Republican Party is full of bigots. They're disgusting and as far as I can tell they have no valid reasons to feel that way. It's purely greed and meanness. What's appalling to me is to see so much of this bigotry on the left. I read and hear awful things said about Jewish people, even here on DU.

4. I don't agree with the premise of this thread that Israel has all the propaganda on their side. (If you look at right wing Christian congregations and their Republican representatives, sure. They're pro-Israel for a disgusting reason: they think its destruction will bring about Armageddon and the Rapture. In other words they built Israel to see it destroyed. Not exactly allies you really want.) Globally, Palestine has all the momentum. Everybody is mad at Israel now (except the Pete Hegseths as I mention above).

I see a tiny population of people up against the rest of the world, most of whom hate them and want them destroyed. To me, Israel and Jewish people are the underdogs. By numbers alone.

I think there is a very real possibility that Israel will be wiped from the map. I think there is a possibility that the people of the world who hate Jews will succeed in their final solution.

There is no such risk for Muslims. They are the largest and fastest growing religious group on earth. I know that the Palestinians in Gaza don't feel that way. Globally, Muslims are not the underdogs.

I hope this helps. I will say that I am sincere in what I post on DU. I may be a bitch with a big mouth but I'm not a troll. Nobody pays me to post. I write my own words. I'm not part of a group and my agenda, such as it is, is my own. I really am a little old white gay woman who grew up in a rural community and just tries to say it like I see it.

We are more similar than you think. Including Briggs-Myers (though I don't recall my type exactly, but it sounds about right) and the suspected autism thing. Throw in some ADHD diagnosed and I'm all over the place with inattention combined with hyper-focus and special interests. And of course a pre-occupation and passion for fairness and justice. ESPECIALLY the defense of underdogs, minorities, victims of all sorts and the persecuted and endangered. Seems like a commonality.

We both come at this from the same place, a good place - a concern and care of the less powerful and the victimized. We diverge in our assessment of who those are, in this case.

My assessment is based on where the facts and "logic" have led me. That process was long and painful. Complicated by the fact that I grew up in a historically anti-semitic country and my last name is Jewish. So I am not a stranger to anti-semitism on a personal level, though I was not fully aware of the extent of my Jewishness (though not matrilineal) as it seems it was kept from me until not long ago. Or perhaps it was due to lack of interest on my part, being a humanist eschewing all forms of tribalism, nationalism and religion.

Then of course, in Canada, I was exposed to the same PR and mythology about Israel as everyone in the West.

But then, applying logic, I started seeing inconsistencies and fallacies in those arguments and myths. Once my eyes were opened, a long process in my youth and early middle age, I could not unsee what I had seen or concluded. Then, similarly to autists or people with that bend towards fairness and justice, I was passionate and relentless, and no one could convince me otherwise. Sort of like you, on the opposite side.

You may think me presumptuous, but I see the error in your "logic". It starts with the equating of Israel with Jewry and vica versa. Therefore you see criticism as anti-semitic or at least somehow dangerous to Jews. But Israel is a nation-state, not the Jewish faith, culture or ethnicity. It does not represent Jews worldwide or should be equated with all Jewry. It is in the interests of people like Netanyahu to claim otherwise in order to ensure people of good will towards Jews are reluctant to criticize Israel and that they defend its actions with all their might, all facts and evidence to the contrary.

We saw that play out for two years. I saw no hateful comments about Jews but I did see a lot of demonization of Muslims as well as defense and rationalization of even the most hateful and inhumane actions of Israel. Trust me when I say it was agonizing and demoralizing to read and exhausting and personally costly to fight against.

What I see still is the repetition of the same talking points that enabled many to close their eyes to an unfolding genocide.

Israel will not be wiped off the map as long as the American Empire exists and that includes not just the U.S.. I am not convinced they would be even then, even if such an unlikely scenario occurred. That view assumes all Muslims are vengeful and genocidal like the state of Israel, so far not born out by history or facts.

Jews are not being genocided, but Muslims are. And Muslims have ALWAYS been the underdogs in a world ruled by white Christians, but that fact doesn't penetrate Western ears attuned to hear "Muslims are bad". To claim that they are not in danger of genocide, when it is actually happening.... attests to the strength and power of Israel's PR and sway in Western discourse as well as to anti-Muslim propaganda.

Of course there is also the fact that it is not Muslims per se that Israel is genociding. It is Israel's neighbours and/or owners of the lands Israel covets. So to me, the argument that Muslims are not underdogs because of the size of their population is a deflection and a distraction from the real issue - which Israel does not want you to see. It is also dangerous and divisive, if you think about it.

Thank you for explaining your views and where you come from. It was a good post for that reason and this exchange is probably the most honest and respectful one we've had. I am glad for that.

Given that is done with our blessing through the American government.

Its one thing to not entirely recognize our complicity in these atrocities as citizens.

It is another to dismiss or endorse it altogether like Bill Maher openly does.

Or is the question why are they like that? That's a much deeper question.

No one is claiming otherwise.

The issue is how Israel responds to perceived threats.

That enemies of Israel hide among innocent civilians doesn’t justify the killing of those civilians to eliminate threats.

The same is true of the lawless occupation and destruction of Palestinian land and territory in southern Lebanon.

for Israel to respond to "perceived" threats? Such as when a music festival is shot up, along with surrounding kibbutzim. If I lived there, I think I would "perceive" a threat when my family/neighbors were massacred.