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BumRushDaShow

(164,778 posts)
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 02:20 PM Dec 2

Hegseth cites 'fog of war' in defending follow-on strike in scrutinized attack on alleged drug boat

Source: AP

Updated 2:10 PM EST, December 2, 2025


WASHINGTON (AP) — Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth cited the “fog of war” in defending a follow-up strike on an alleged drug-carrying boat in the Caribbean Sea earlier this year.

During Tuesday’s cabinet meeting at the White House, Hegseth said that he did not see that there were survivors in the water when the second strike was ordered and launched in early September, saying that “the thing was on fire” and citing the “fog of war” in defending the strike.

Hegseth also said he “didn’t stick around” for the remainder of the mission following the first strike, and said that the admiral in charge had “made the right call” in ordering it, which he “had complete authority to do.”

The Washington Post first reported that Hegseth issued a verbal order for the second strike that killed survivors on the boat. On Monday, the White House said that Navy Vice Adm. Frank “Mitch” Bradley acted “within his authority and the law” when he ordered the second strike.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/hegseth-trump-venezuela-540ae279827e02105e089f1bd5af37a6



“the thing was on fire”


What is a "thing"? It was a civilian boat with civilians on it. No one bothered to board it to determine what its intentions were.

citing the “fog of war”


When did the U.S. (CONGRESS) "declare war"?
52 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hegseth cites 'fog of war' in defending follow-on strike in scrutinized attack on alleged drug boat (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Dec 2 OP
Circling back to kill civilians floating in the water is MURDER, not fog of war. Irish_Dem Dec 2 #1
There is no F...king War. Not even a Congressional Resolution, but less a Congressional Declaration of War. hlthe2b Dec 2 #2
Exactly. There is NO WAR. We are looking at MURDER. Irish_Dem Dec 2 #12
Right?! What war? yardwork Dec 2 #20
Killing men just fishing on their boat is called murder. Irish_Dem Dec 2 #21
I Get The Impression RobinA Dec 3 #49
Yes. He is the one in an alcohol ego fog. Irish_Dem Dec 4 #52
Kelly was right. This is all a big game to them. ananda Dec 2 #3
I missed the part where we declared war on Venezuela. Ray Bruns Dec 2 #4
More like the fog of too much booze.nt moniss Dec 2 #5
Lol, beat me to it! Blumancru Dec 2 #29
Drunk on Power 2na fisherman Dec 2 #43
Gee. If Robert McNamara could go stock free by writing a book about "Fog of War" erronis Dec 2 #6
Not defending Robert McNamara, but this is no comparison ... FakeNoose Dec 2 #24
There was the Tonkin Gulf Resolution of August 1964 RazorbackExpat Dec 2 #35
Just heard a replay of Pete's "fog of war" blather. He doesn't even know what allegorical oracle Dec 2 #25
You are right. From Pete's perspective, the fog is after the 4th or 5th shot of whiskey. erronis Dec 2 #28
What a fucking joke. chowder66 Dec 2 #7
Total fucking bullshit. He's a fucking liar and murderer. LymphocyteLover Dec 2 #8
Since when have we been at war? Did Congress declare war and I missed it?? Rhiannon12866 Dec 2 #9
A leader in his position... Mike Nelson Dec 2 #10
You would need the other side returning fire for it to be a fog of war. Baitball Blogger Dec 2 #11
The "fog of war"? Inf**kingcredible! patphil Dec 2 #13
"fog of war" my old soldier ass AverageOldGuy Dec 2 #14
You need to change your moniker. COL Mustard Dec 2 #41
"Fog of war" is how women describe the feeling after Hegseth has been near their drinks Prairie Gates Dec 2 #15
Kegsbreath lying again sakabatou Dec 2 #16
So Bradley will be giving a classified briefing on Thursday, Native Dec 2 #17
Is that what they're calling drunken stupor now? Buddyzbuddy Dec 2 #18
Just exactly how much chaos and uncertainty (fog) is there when no one is shooting back at you? LudwigPastorius Dec 2 #19
Fog of cosplaying. If he can't HANDLE a fisherman boat, what about a fleet of destroyers? WEAK!!! nt Exp Dec 2 #22
"Fog of War"? sheshe2 Dec 2 #23
He's full of shit Warpy Dec 2 #26
Hegseth is trying to throw Admiral Bradley under the bus. TomSlick Dec 2 #27
Fog of murder. Harker Dec 2 #30
Us folks that aren't handsome lethal warriors, call it being shit faced. Swede Dec 2 #31
Speaking of that, I just spotted this story - BumRushDaShow Dec 2 #32
That raccoon was framed. He was just the wingman. nt eppur_se_muova Dec 2 #33
Oh my God, that's hilarious!!!! COL Mustard Dec 2 #40
Does he mean 'the fog of BEER'? I think he means the fog of beer.. Jack Valentino Dec 2 #34
The murderous jerk has gone to "the fog of war" defense. Lame. This ain't Vietnam dude. BradBo Dec 2 #36
'Fog of War' Aussie105 Dec 2 #37
Paging Admiral Bradley...your bus is waiting.... COL Mustard Dec 2 #38
More like enigmania Dec 2 #39
Hegseth loves terms like "fog of war", it makes him feel manly BlueWaveNeverEnd Dec 2 #42
The only fog is between his ears. Sneederbunk Dec 2 #44
What war? Was anybody shooting back? DFW Dec 3 #45
Is everyone on Trump's team role playing? Aussie105 Dec 3 #46
One of the great 'fog of war' scenes is in Stendhal's "Charterhouse of Parma' dedl67 Dec 3 #47
Winners call it war. Losers are called terrorists. The law calls it murder or war crime JT45242 Dec 3 #48
Maybe an "alcoholic fog"? Bastards, anyway you cut it! electric_blue68 Dec 3 #50
War? liberal N proud Dec 3 #51

hlthe2b

(112,517 posts)
2. There is no F...king War. Not even a Congressional Resolution, but less a Congressional Declaration of War.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 02:29 PM
Dec 2

Much less a metaphoric war. Mr. Macho-wannabe, whose insecurity literally SCREAMS from his words and "actions."

But, yes... MURDER!

yardwork

(68,838 posts)
20. Right?! What war?
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 04:35 PM
Dec 2

The U.S. aimed a missile at an unarmed fishing boat off the coast of Venezuela and when a couple people survived, we hit them again.

Not a war. We call this terrorism when other people do it.

Irish_Dem

(78,972 posts)
21. Killing men just fishing on their boat is called murder.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 04:37 PM
Dec 2

And yes they are using murder to terrorize everyone.

RobinA

(10,464 posts)
49. I Get The Impression
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 06:05 PM
Dec 3

that he thinks "the fog of wear" is actual fog since he seems to use it as a reason for not seeing that was happening.

ananda

(34,244 posts)
3. Kelly was right. This is all a big game to them.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 02:30 PM
Dec 2

They're like spoiled psychopathic children
who think they can get away with anything.

erronis

(22,388 posts)
6. Gee. If Robert McNamara could go stock free by writing a book about "Fog of War"
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 02:38 PM
Dec 2

why wouldn't little drunkard pete try that exit door?

For those that are too old or too young: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War

FakeNoose

(39,875 posts)
24. Not defending Robert McNamara, but this is no comparison ...
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:16 PM
Dec 2

Vietnam really was a serious war, even though Congress never got around to declaring "war" on Vietnam.

Hogsbreath has a lot of nerve comparing himself to McNamara, and comparing the US bombing a few fishing (or whatever) boats to the Vietnam War.

RazorbackExpat

(849 posts)
35. There was the Tonkin Gulf Resolution of August 1964
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 09:04 PM
Dec 2

in which Congress essentially left it up to the President to determine how far American involvement in the conflict would go. And remember, there were two Viet Nams at the time. The Tonkin Gulf Resolution was directed at North Viet Nam.

allegorical oracle

(6,118 posts)
25. Just heard a replay of Pete's "fog of war" blather. He doesn't even know what
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:24 PM
Dec 2

that phrase means. He stated that there was a lot of fire and smoke after one of the boat strikes -- it was hard to see anything. "And that's why they call it the fog of war," he said. He appears to be taking "fog" literally. My understanding is that it's a state of situational unawareness that occurs during the chaos of battle.

erronis

(22,388 posts)
28. You are right. From Pete's perspective, the fog is after the 4th or 5th shot of whiskey.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:33 PM
Dec 2

Surprised the supposed teetotaler (but apparently drug addicted) CINC would want someone like that under his 'command'.

Baitball Blogger

(51,598 posts)
11. You would need the other side returning fire for it to be a fog of war.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 02:55 PM
Dec 2

In Hegseth's place, it was more bloodlust than fog of war.

patphil

(8,621 posts)
13. The "fog of war"? Inf**kingcredible!
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 03:11 PM
Dec 2

Blowing up some small boats in international waters just because they can doesn't qualify for a "fog of war" condition.
This asshole's drunk on power.

AverageOldGuy

(3,254 posts)
14. "fog of war" my old soldier ass
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 03:15 PM
Dec 2

His goddam brain was fogged up on booze.

Hogsbreath is a former National Guard infantry officer. However, he NEVER EVEN ENROLLED IN OR REQUESTED TO BE ENROLLED IN SOME COURSES THAT ALL/MOST INFANTRY OFFICERS AND SOLDIERS COMPLETE.
-- Ranger -- some of the toughest and best small infantry unit training in the world
-- Airborne -- learn how to jump out of airplanes. And land safely.
-- Air Assault -- helicopter operations in combat
-- Pathfinder -- small unit goes in first, clears the way for follow-on small units



I completed all but Pathfinder, never figured I needed it. Active duty 1967-1995, Vietnam 1969-70.

COL Mustard

(7,912 posts)
41. You need to change your moniker.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 10:09 PM
Dec 2

Average guys don't complete Ranger, Airborne and Air Assault.

I did Air Assault back when there was only one, but I work now with guys who have done all four, and a few who've done some others as well (SF, diver, etc.). And one guy who was a Tomb guard in the 3rd Infantry.

LudwigPastorius

(14,004 posts)
19. Just exactly how much chaos and uncertainty (fog) is there when no one is shooting back at you?
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 04:13 PM
Dec 2

Criminals!

Exp

(731 posts)
22. Fog of cosplaying. If he can't HANDLE a fisherman boat, what about a fleet of destroyers? WEAK!!! nt
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:06 PM
Dec 2

Warpy

(114,346 posts)
26. He's full of shit
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:32 PM
Dec 2

He knew there were survivors clinging to wreckage. My guess is that Demented Donny said to kill them all and Hedseth said yes sir and told the loyal admiral to give the order to shoot.

TomSlick

(12,851 posts)
27. Hegseth is trying to throw Admiral Bradley under the bus.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:32 PM
Dec 2

Of course, he is lying.

Commanders up and down the chain need to take note that Hegseth will turn on them if they obey his illegal orders.

COL Mustard

(7,912 posts)
40. Oh my God, that's hilarious!!!!
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 10:06 PM
Dec 2

I hope the crew put the little guy outside after he slept it off.

On further consideration, I hope they put him outside before he woke up. Raccoons can be mean-tempered when they're sober. I don't want to encounter a drunk one, or one with a hangover!

Aussie105

(7,510 posts)
37. 'Fog of War'
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 09:50 PM
Dec 2

Describes what some soldiers experience and do in the heat of battle.
An ill considered, impulsive move.
They make decisions the rest of us can't comprehend.

This wasn't it.

This was orders from above . . . No Witnesses!

COL Mustard

(7,912 posts)
38. Paging Admiral Bradley...your bus is waiting....
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 10:04 PM
Dec 2

You may get under it at Gate 6.

You used to have a distinguished career. Now it looks like you should have been on that boat, or at least been boat-adjacent.

Remember, Everything Trump Touches, Dies.

DFW

(59,635 posts)
45. What war? Was anybody shooting back?
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 05:11 AM
Dec 3

That is not war. That is a one-sided attack. In this case, more like an execution.

dedl67

(151 posts)
47. One of the great 'fog of war' scenes is in Stendhal's "Charterhouse of Parma'
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 06:30 AM
Dec 3

The novel's protagonist, Fabrizio, is a non-combatant, but is somehow wandering around in the middle of the Battle of Waterloo, trying unsuccessfully to figure out what the heck is going on. To me, the Battle of Waterloo doesn't seem very similar to the bombing of an outboard motorboat. Although, if I remember the scene correctly, Fabrizio was drunk part of the time, which may be the connection with Hegseth.

JT45242

(3,794 posts)
48. Winners call it war. Losers are called terrorists. The law calls it murder or war crime
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 06:42 AM
Dec 3

Either way, it is a major crime.

Like life without parole or death penalty crime. Casually killing two people without due process or if it is a war, the kind of violation of the military code of conduct that would get you a life sentence.

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