I believe Trump said something and Joe Rogan mentioned the same thing - per what Musk told him.
Doubtful we’ll get the truth

The GOP Congress won't impeach. Bondi and Patel won't investigate or indict. SCrOTUS will call for more immunity. Will the people rise?

I think that's the most important thing here. I highly doubt the election could be overturned but we can't just let them keep doing this.

Why should n’t it be overturned?

Impeachment! (We know that won't happen)

If this happened and we can raise enough stink about it and if Trump’s policies cause suffering, especially if his MAGA base begins to think they were betrayed, then perhaps at the midterms we can either win enough House seats to take the House. And maybe the Senate. Or at least a handful of Republicans will vote with the Democrats for impeachment.

It's just that it can't. There's no mechanism for overturning the election of a President. Once he's in, you can impeach and remove him, but you can't give the Presidentcy to Harris, even if she won.

This session will be all about consolidating power - implementing things to prevent Democrats from taking power again.

They'll probably turn their attention to Dem governors in battleground states. Knock a few of them off and then put folks in to put their finger on the scale for future elections.

Voter rights. Purges of voters. Campaign finance, etc, etc, - it will all be tilted or Dem laws diluted to keep them in power.

Why would a corrupt regime ever allow a free and fair election to ever occur again?
A lot of people do not seem to grasp what is going on here.

Our main hope is that Blue State Governors will resist any takeover attempt and that there will be some cops and soldiers that are loyal to the U.S. Constitution and not to Trump.

We still have the Courts. Even if the Supreme Court seems compromised, there are still have a lot of good Federal judges. Roughly 20 Democratic State Attorneys General just sued Trump over his illegal attempts to end birthright citizenship. It is in the Constitution, the 14th Amendment. We still have some avenues of power. If Trump loses in court, he might just suspend the Constitution. If he did that, his administration would be illegal. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not Donald Trump's fiat. We would have a legal and moral right to rise up to remove him, especially if the Supreme Court and/or the Congress failed to remove him. Soldiers and Federal Law Enforcement take oaths to defend the Constitution. If Trump suspended the Constitution, they would have the right and the duty to defend it. I hope that there would be a peaceful removal, but it might not end up that way. We live in dangerous times.

How did they end throughout history?

I totally trust him to not rig it next time

When he starts fucking with the voting, that is a problem. This needs to be investigated now!
.

We need to find out what happened. I just don't think Kamala lost all 7 swing states and I never will.

immunity.

Of course proving, getting the courts to function right up to SCOTUS not likely. Even Watergate required tapes by Nixon himself, but for those (with help from 2nd in command at the FBI) Woodward and Bernstein would likely have eventually have been hung out to dry.

But finding out how it happened to stop it from happening again is the most important thing. Sending someone to jail over it would also deter.

Musk is dangerous in many areas so it's worth trying to put him in jail.

And imagine proving that Trump didn't really win after all. Some satisfaction there even if he continues to evade consequences. I want to watch Trump and all his minions squirm.

How do we take our country back? Where is there a provision for this?

I detail this further down the thread in another comment. If Trump and his Gang of MAGA Criminals stole the election via fraud, it could be litigated in the Courts. It could also be done in the court of public opinion, ie, the Media. If we could win either or both, we could win the 2026 elections and the 2028 elections. Even if we can't kick Trump out during the next four years, we could retard his progress especially if we retake the Congress in 2026 and then the White House in 2028.

is anyone else ever going to win another election?

Possibly if (many or some) of the great uninformed can be rehabilitated - the necessary mandate, as a buffer, could exist.

I dunno. I am still in the HOW? phase.

If they suspend the Constitution or the next elections that would be an illegal act and would invalidate their administration. Soldiers and Law Enforcement will have to make a choice- are they loyal to the Constitution or are they loyal to a Dictatorship? We must support those that are loyal to the Constitution and oppose those that are not.

I would like to know.

I don't know what the recourse is. Is it cause for impeachment?

Is it cause for the military members to make that kind of choice?

We are in uncharted territory.

The American people would have a legal and moral right to oppose and remove such an illegal regime. Any Resistance would likely be based in Blue controlled areas by Democratic Governors. Soldiers and Federal Law Enforcement would need to stand by their oaths to the Constitution and oppose those that do not. This is all hypothetical and I hope nothing like this occurs, but they have already implied that they will suspend the Constitution and cancel elections. We are only a couple of days in and they have already issued orders that violate the Constitution (the order to end birthright citizenship which is in the Constitution in the 14th Amendment). 20 State Attorneys General have sued over it. So hopefully it will be stopped in the courts. In fact, I hope the entire thing is resolved peacefully. I hope that we have fair elections in 2026 and 2028. I am skeptical though. These people do not play by the rules of democracy.

I hope we can all find enough strength, and the resistance we need, to weather this storm.We need to fight back with whatever laws and resources we have.

We are alive in a very difficult time in history, but others have existed in difficult times and prevailed. The Confederates were defeated in the 19th century and the Nazis were defeated in the 20th century. We must keep the faith and summon our courage to defeat the MAGA threat here in the 21st century. I hope that we can vote them out in 2026 and 2028. In the meantime we must fight them however we can, in the courts, in the media, and throughout the entire country.

the courts appear to be neutered...

It is so frustrating because he is moving at an astronomical rate it will be hard to wait two years.

I can only hope his vindictive executive orders will be tied up in the courts.

Our main recourse would be a lawsuit in the courts claiming voter fraud. That would be the legal recourse. The other recourse is in the court of public opinion, that is, the media. Even if we lose in the courts, if the story gets out there in the media, it may help us win the elections in 2026 and 2028. We might take back the Congress and the White House.

We don't need the Feds right off to file lawsuits alleging election fraud. State Attorneys General can do that. Roughly 20 State Attorneys just sued Trump over his illegal attempts to end birthright citizenship. There are still a lot of good Judges out there even if the Supreme Court seems compromised. We also have Democratic control over a lot of States and those Blue States can resist. We are not done yet. We have some power and there is some hope.

The media can’t be trusted to print or talk about anything that resembles truth to the 75 million idiots that voted for for this lunacy.
How does the media get on board with this strategy?

should be investigated. But there were quite a few uttered before Election Day. So we’ll investigate NOW?

Thats just like the emails i get from Democratic Party. Dems to look at expanding supreme court. None of that stuff will ever happen until Democrats take the house the Senate and the presidency.

Journalists!

Where are the Jack Andersons of today? Woodward & Bernstein?

I don't disagree with that but shouldn't the Attorney General of the United States also be insuring our laws are followed including counting all true votes? I think Garland has failed in his job too.

Here's a DOJ fact sheet comment from a previous Attorney General:

"In anticipation of the upcoming midterm elections on November 6, 2018, the Department of Justice today provided information about its efforts through the Civil Rights Division, the Criminal Division, the National Security Division, and the FBI to assist state and local jurisdictions in ensuring that all qualified voters have the opportunity to cast their ballots and have their votes counted free of discrimination, intimidation or fraud in the election process.

“The Department of Justice and its component agencies protect our democratic process year-round."

Do we really think that this fascist dictator just sailed to victory this easily? They never seemed all that worried.

Coup 2.0.

I've been watching returns on election night since .... forever...at my age. I've NEVER seen anything like the way the votes came in on November 5th. The whole thing was so beyond weird that I, like everyone else...even republicans...was in total shock. Never seen anything like it.

They had been accusing democrats of the same thing for years, and we all know that, whatever they accuse, they use. Then he admits Elon knew all about the voting machines.

It's way past time that we heard SOMETHING from the GD media!!!!! If Obama had made this statement, it would have been 24/7 coverage for months.

He's also made similar types of comments before.

I sort of tend to agree with you, Anything to stir the pot and keep people upset and off guard

It's his state. And every swing state under DemocrTic control should too.

Don't know what good it would do. Maybe by the time proof is found everyone will be damned tired of the sick fk and be ready to be rid of him.

A new Attorney General was just inaugurated yesterday. Unfortunately, he is not only a Republican but a particularly odious one. We're not going to get any help there. Hopefully something is done though - I believe there are quite a few Democratic District Attorneys across the state including in Philadelphia that can at least look at things locally. I wouldn't count on anyone finding anything, though.

Why do these idiots keep voting Rethug?

Republicans did sweep statewide elections in PA this year, but prior to this year I believe the Democrats had won 20 of the prior 25 statewide elections in PA. And Dems kept control of the PA House in 2024 and won 1 state senate seat and lost 1 keeping the senate makeup the same. Republicans have a narrow majority in the state senate Right now, it's basically a 50-50 state. If the Republicans go crazy as expected, I think Democrats have a great chance of taking back the AG office in 4 years. Unfortunately, we have to deal with their BS in the meantime.

It's such a joke. Democrats can not win, unless they win by an overwhelming amount of votes. Every election it gets worse, in the same states, that do the same shit. And like a good thief, every time they steal they update their game, to a new and improved version.

Someone else noticed that.

He made remarks like that after he won the election, and nobody did anything about it.

Its a lot harder now than it would have been then.

that were controlled by Musk. Both the grifter and Musk made (not so cryptic) confessions as far back as November. The grifter said: I don't need any more votes.

If anyone can prove that there was literal rigging of the election, then what? The grifter was not under the protection of a SCOTUS invented presidential immunity yet.

I was mocked by some for bringing it up, but had some support here on DU. Now some people are waking up.

I remember seeing that. Stay strong. We are in the right and that is a powerful position to be in.

Please, someone in the Musk organization, leak documents, emails or recordings that can shed light on this. We need insiders.

A. Now ask yourself: if you wanted to rig and steal a local election, how would you do it?"
B. Now, ask yourself: If you wanted to rig and steal the state-wide election, how would you do it?
C. Now, ask yourself: How would you do it if you wanted to steal a fifty-state national election?
D. What was the national outcome of the 2000 election? Let me answer this one.
Computers were put in every state before the next POTUS election.

All three A, B, and C situations have some things in common.
1. Votes need to be tampered with in some fashion. To flip votes or suppress voter numbers, some level of conspirators would need to coordinate.
2. Depending on geography, The operation and conspirator numbers get more complex
3. Regardless of geography, there will always be some time limits for the vote tallies to decide who wins.
4. The more votes that need to be counted, the more counters or, at least, faster counting methods will be needed.

When you hear recount in Florida it just means running the ballots through the scanners again

Unfortunately in the years since then most states have moved in the same direction, when you have machines made by republicans and serviced by republicans, where hand counts by citizens are illegal or at least discouraged, it makes democrats chances of winning minuscule

The programming could be easily done. The real question is how to get it installed.

More like Jasmine Crockett, please!

is capable of stealing an election.

I find it unbelievable he won every battleground state.

making it look more legitimate. I always felt like that was a hallmark of successful cheating...add a little here and a little there.

State Attorneys General in Blue States will investigate it. Roughly 20 Attorneys General have already filed suit against Trump for his illegal attempt to end birthright citizenship. Birthright citizenship is in the 14th Amendment. No American judge can ignore that. It is clearly illegal. It is violating the Constitution. It is illegal on the face of it.

We have some avenues to power. We can sue in the courts and fight in the court of public opinion. There are still a lot of good Federal judges out there, even if the Supreme Court is comprised. If the Supreme Court rules against the Constitution that would be a violation of their own oaths and would invalidate the authority of the Court.

If Trump suspends or violates the Constitution that would render his Presidency illegal. Every soldier and every law enforcement officer would have to choose- are they loyal to their oath and to the U.S. Constitution or are they loyal to the illegal Dictator Trump? All of America would have to choose- do we support those that are loyal to the Constitution or do we capitulate to those that violate it? We would have a legal and moral right to defend the Constitution.

Was not quite 100% convinced that this election was clean.
I remember 2000, and was it Ohio (or Illinois) in 2004 some place where the votes were taken? Or something. Sorry for the vagueness. I remember hearing the news keep coming in that night, but I didn't have at home acess to the net then.

First, the best forensic computer voting experts get to it; investigate!!!
[Oh, where is Harold Finch when we need him?!!! (Sci-Fi inside joke)]

A poster in a different thread talking about you take a little, a little there; and it adds up.Then a story about bank fraud rounding up pennies.

IF it's truly found to have been rigged
(GAH!!!!!) then people will have to figure out what to do. May be a slim chance of overturning it. Idk! But we have to try if it's so.

Part if me feels like I'm watching a political thriller movie only it could be real!

Suddenly I feel like when The Saturday Night Massacre happened: Nixon/SP Arciebald Cox/AG Richardson/Astmst AG Rucklehaus (only it might be in very s-l-o-w m-o!

(had to look 'em up)

What does being “anti-Trump” have to do with any of this? And how in the hell do they know that it was just “anti-Trump voters” who “seized” upon it?

Look at his words! Did they fucking tamper with the voting machines or not is the only question that should be asked.

Fuck the Republican owned media machine.

unless they lost.

To paraphrase the great Flip Wilson, "WhatEVER he says Leon did, he did it. And some mo' besides!" Dems better dramatically focus on what happens on elections days, not just campaigning, all right.

Crockett and Goldman will get donations from me in the next cycle.

And I'll never believe Trump won every swing state.

I feel like we should have a Pavlov's Voters Association and donate whenever the politician does something we really like.

And send them a note like "Thank you for calling for the investigation into potential fraudulent voting. By the way, I just sent a check to your reelection fund."

Like training a puppy – it's better to reward them immediately for doing the right thing, than to yell at them for doing the wrong thing.

That's one of the best ideas I ever heard.

I wish there was a way to implement it. I wouldn't know how to go about it.

Along with all the Republican AG's from states where we lost.
Assuming it's true, by making allusions of election fraud at this point, with the Republicans holding a governmental trifecta, amounts to bragging about a crime they got away with, and will never be prosecuted for.

It's just a big old Fuck You.

"Anything can be hacked." - Elon Musk.
"We don't need any votes." - Donald Trump (repeatedly)
"You'll never have to vote again." - Donald Trump

I posted on DU about previously this and got some flak but also some support.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219883209

I don’t believe I said it out loud because I didn’t want to sound like the republicans in 2020. If it were proven the votes were rigged, his presidency would be invalid. That means all of his appointments were also invalid. It would be a constitutional crisis for sure. Smarter people than me would have to figure this out.

The Trump Presidency would be illegal. It would definitely be a constitutional crisis. I think that we are near a possible constitutional crisis anyway. We are just a couple of days in and Trump has already made an unconstitutional order, to end birthright citizenship which is in the 14th Amendment. 20 State Attorneys General have already sued over it. Hopefully this will be resolved peacefully in the courts. What judge can deny the legality of what is clearly in the Constitution? Even though the Supreme Court has seemingly given imperial powers to the Presidency, a violation of the Constitution is not and can not be an official act of any legitimate President. We live in difficult and dangerous times.

cares if there was fraud.

Just enough to give shitgibbon the edge. With all that money to spend, this time they hired pros instead of clumsy political operatives.

Fucking cowards.

...and it's only fitting that they themselves commit it.

https://russblib.blogspot.com/?m=1

... Tabulators. Musk had no right being into
our voting systems. I just knew he and the GRU were into the voting data.

On one hand, to have actually changed the election outcome would have required a Watergate-style operation in many states. On the face of it, that seems really unlikely.

On the other hand, you don't have to rig any "states", and you probably would not want to hack a central tabulator at the statewide level because that would be easy to expose if the county-level data was available. The place to attack is in Trump-friendly counties, of which there are many. Or more specifically, VERY Trump-friendly precincts/polling places that are under the control of corrupt Republicans. And we already saw in 2020 that the Trump people did, or tried to do exactly that in multiple locations.

I don't have any evidence one way or another so I am not accusing anybody of anything. But to do what Trump apparently described, you might need to find 10 counties in each of the swing states where Republicans control the election machinery and would be eager to cheat. In addition, these counties would either have to be ones without any paper trail (that makes it very easy) or else places where it was unlikely Harris would demand a recount. She ultimately didn't ask for any recounts, so the opportunity at least exists.

The next step would be to corrupt the counts. In my county, we have paper ballots that are retained, but those are generally used only in recount scenarios. Absent a recount demand, you just go with the tabulation that came out of the onsite tabulators at each voting location. In our case, the Inspector at each site removes a memory card from the tabulator when the polls close. We count the ballots to make sure that all ballots are accounted for, matching the number scanned by the tabulator, but there is no manual counting of votes. Without a recount, we rely entirely on the memory card that comes out of each tabulator. The Inspector hand-delivers the memory card to a central location, and should be accompanied by a witness, but that doesn't always happen. The tabulator itself is sealed, placed in locked storage, and collected the next day by county election officials.

Anywhere in that process of hand-delivering that memory card, there can be a chain-of-custody failure. And at that point, a person with some skills could conceivably alter the contents of the memory card to report votes differently than they were actually tabulated. I don't know how elaborate the protections are, including encryption or whatever. But there is zero doubt that a person with Musk's wealth and a few months to plan ahead could fund a team that could crack these cards and manipulate the contents. My guess is that they are not heavily protected because it is always possible to go back and re-tabulate the original ballots. But ... see the problem?

There very definitely is an opportunity to do something like this and avoid detection if recounts are not demanded. And there are undoubtedly plenty of corrupt Republicans. We saw that in 2020. The only real obstacle is scale. For this to work, you would need to repeat this crime 100 or 200 times. I mean that would cost somebody hundreds of thousands of dollars to pull off nationally -- maybe even millions. And nobody has that kind of money to burn ... except ... oh, shit.

If you follow my description, I'm not really talking about hacking anything. I am only talking about modifying the data on a regular old memory card, and you could do that if you know enough about the voting system, specifically the format that the precinct tabulator uses to deliver results to the county tabulators. And how did Trump describe this apparent operation? He said "nobody knows more about these vote counting machines than Elon Musk."

... 20 years and this election never passed my smell test from the get go. Who ever or whom ever were behind this were very good @ hiding their fingerprints of the crime.

Google France, Musk, and the GRU and see if
some of that stuff looks familiar. They also were into the vote in the U.K. too.

I also think the Crypto Boys were busy too.

You said "very good @ hiding their fingerprints of the crime."

I don't think so. I can't speak to every possible election system out there, but I know something about the election system used in my county. I have worked 10 elections with the same machinery and procedures. In my case, the tabulator at the voting location spits out a memory card, after we have hand-counted ballots to make sure the tabulator scanned the exact number of ballots we issued. In a normal election, that's the last time the ballots or tabulator machine are used.

From that point forward, it is all about the memory card. Given enough resources (or some inside help, any memory card can be decoded. And if you can decode it, you can flip votes and then re-encode it so that the cross tabs still add up, but with different vote distribution. If you know in advance the format -- and that is exactly why Tina Peters let the Trump team in to her machines in 2020 -- you can write a program that can change the vote contents on these memory cards in just a few seconds. If you do it properly, adhering to any encoding protections (which you would have reverse engineered years in advance -- that's why they wanted the copied of the voting machine memory) one wouldn't expect any "fingerprints."

This type of manipulation, if done well, would only be discovered if a full end-to-end recount was ordered. In that case, you would take the original paper ballots and run them through a known healthy tabulator, and see if the memory card ends up with the same numbers that were on the card turned in on election night. But there were no recounts.

In my county, they use ES&S systems, and several executives of that company are known Republican partisans. It is reasonable to assume that Musk could "persuade" somebody at ES&S to reveal the format of the memory cards. In Pennsylvania, many counties use ES&S. Some use Dominion. Some use ClearBallot. In Michigan, they use ES&S, Dominion and Hart systems. In Wisconsin they use Dominion, ES&S, Clear Ballot, and Sequoia. In Nevada, they use DVS and ES&S. In NC, they use ES&S, Hart and ClearBallot.

In other words, ES&S is used widely in EVERY swing state. It would not be necessary to learn how to manipulate tabulations for every vendor. If you learn how to do it for ES&S, then you simply have to select counties that use ES&S equipment. That would be easy.

And my point is that each component of the ES&S system could be tested extensively and work perfectly. You don't have to hack the machines. You just have to manipulate the data on the memory card, as long as there is no recount. Given the statement that Trump has made, the Governors of PA, WI, NC, and WI (all Democrats) should order audits of counties that use ES&S equipment. I don't know how long they are required to retain the paper ballots, but all you would need to do is find one memory card that differs significantly from the paper ballots and that is the smoking gun.

Some additional information on ES&S that helps give a more complete picture: https://www.dcreport.org/2020/12/31/ess-voting-systems-a-friend-to-republicans/

Last edited Thu Jan 23, 2025, 06:47 AM - Edit history (1)

A little old but the fudge factor was baked into
the cake as voting machines. Solid study.

It whatever the manipulation it was was very
well done.

BTW. Thanks for answering things... I am stuck in a hospital getting tests

Last edited Thu Jan 23, 2025, 02:44 PM - Edit history (1)

It is a 2007 study, but mostly still relevant, and a very thorough report. People can find it here: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/22486-document-05-jennifer-l-brunner-ohio-secretary

The ES&S process involving memory cards is described on P26, and is similar to all the other systems.

The report describes good safeguards throughout the process EXCEPT for the handling of that card. In all cases, the cards are manually removed from the tabulation machine and delivered to a central location. In absence of a recount, I believe the SOP is to simply use the memory cards and never refer back to the tabulation machines or the paper ballots themselves -- and there were NO RECOUNTS.

There is an opportunity to change the contents of the memory card from the time they are removed from the tabulation machines to the time they are actually processed at election HQ for the county. That requires corrupt officials, but there is absolutely no doubt there are many corrupt people in the election systems. We saw what Tina Peters did. We saw all the fake electors. It is certainly not a stretch to imagine scenarios where insiders could manipulate the memory cards before they are processed at the county level. The only real safeguard is that such fraud could easily be detected by recounting the ballots. But if there are no recounts, such tampering could go undetected.

And remember, elections are political. The objective isn't to win the election, but to win the count, and more specifically, to win the PR battle in the first few days after the voting ends. The Trump people wouldn't necessarily have been concerned about recounts because they figured they could bully their way through that and have Trump practically coronated within the first 24 hours, which is exactly what happened.

We have Democratic Governors in many of the swing states. There really should be a forensic audit to see if any of these cards were manipulated, as Trump seems to imply with his public statements.

Some how ( i don't know how, but i'd leave that up to Dems. that really believe something did happen to votes) Get a go fund me in a couple of toss up states we control, then choose some of the BEST computer wizards we ca trust. Have discussions of what type (if any) of vote tampering could have taken place. THEN they decide best way to move forward. i honestly feel something like this needs to happen to settle our thoughts, one way or another. Hell, maybe start with a forum here on this site just to decide who is best Democrat to contact? Go from there. Something has to be done before next election just to give us a good feeling of no interference.

Leave it to the black women to get shit done!

That is AI pushing the noise to push voters to vote for Trump.

You betcha.

There is a group, Smart Election, that is involved in election integrity for those who say, ‘what can we do’? https://smartelections.us/
Many questioned the election but their concerns were dismissed as conspiracy. The Democratic establishment denied any wrongdoing and wouldn’t consider a recount. Many countries verify results, why is it such a sin to be sure it is valid in the USA?
As well, on YouTube, Jessica Danson has stood up for election integrity: https://www.youtube.com/live/JkmSXcHLjLE?si=4ebRvsWEhpwOCVt2
I see no reason, given Trump’s past record, why this shouldn’t be seriously considered.

I doubt we'll ever know for sure.

we need an explanation of how they could have gained access to the machines. PA is a dem state so if there is a reasonable suspicion we ought to be able to get a look.

purpose. If so, it would be completely undetectable.

Frankly, considering all the comments Elon has made in the last few months (including before the election), it seems pretty clear to me that he did something behind the scenes. Trump's "We already have all the votes" remark before Election Day just pours all the more fuel onto that fire.

write one that could avoid detection of tampering by machine testers. What I don't see is how they would get that code into the machines. They are air gapped and kept under lock and key with tamper proof seals. Insider election officials get access when they set things up and I think they are the only ones that do. Supposedly many are involved when this happens. And I guess its done by counties, so they could only fix one county with an infiltration if it was even possible.

The accuser here, Smart Elections says something about remote access. But when they explain it they start out: "This code commit includes code to send files over a secure FTP (File Transfer Protocol) connection, and it establishes the connection using the Dominion admin credentials: dvscorp08! login: Code Reference" What connection? The machines are supposed to be unconnected to Internet or phone lines so there is no connection.

So for me to get onboard for this I need either some evidence that insider tampering took place or evidence that a machine was hooked up when it should not have been.

I remember this ground being covered shortly after the election:

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/11/13/fact-check-was-elon-musks-starlink-used-to-rig-the-us-election

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-election-starlink-musk-steal-trump-38757341656d4f44243076d6356cb68b


I'm not saying it's impossible that they rigged things some way, some how, but as you said, bring on the evidence!

They left sleeping dogs lay there and acted as all was normal for some reason....Maybe we can expose the truth even though ita way too late...

I am disappointed.