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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVance tells Pope: "Stick to matters of morality."

JD Vance defends Trump amid spat with Pope Leo: Stick to matters of morality
Catholic vice-president effectively tells Leo to stay in his lane after pope criticized the White House over the Iran war
by Richard Luscombe
The Guardian, April 14, 2026
JD Vance has weighed in on Donald Trumps feud with Pope Leo, effectively telling the pontiff to stay in his lane after the head of the Catholic church criticized the White House over the Iran war.
It would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality, to stick to matters of whats going on in the Catholic church and let the president of the United States stick to dictating American public policy, the vice-president a Catholic convert himself said in an interview on Fox News on Monday night.
His comments represented the latest twist in the spat between Trump and the first US-born pope that began Saturday when Pope Leo XIV suggested during evening prayers at St Peters Basilica in Vatican City that a delusion of omnipotence surrounded the Iran war.
Snip...
The president has the prerogative to set American foreign policy, hes got the prerogative to set American immigration policy. He has to look out for the interests of the United States of America, and that inevitably means that when the Vatican comments on issues of public policy, sometimes theres going to be agreement, of course, and sometimes theres going to be disagreement, he said.
In some cases it would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality, to stick to matters of whats going on in the Catholic church. But when theyre in conflict, theyre in conflict. I dont worry about it too much.
Continues...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/14/jd-vance-defends-trump-pope-leo-spat
Who knows what Shady Couchhumper would be asked if Rupert Murdoch were Catholic?
Walleye
(45,075 posts)Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)
JD Vance's favorability likened to 'herpes' in brutal poll analysis
https://www.rawstory.com/jd-vance-popularity/
MustLoveBeagles
(16,820 posts)Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)A singular Trump affront to the concept of obscenity.
MustLoveBeagles
(16,820 posts)walkingman
(10,978 posts)Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)From Teaching American History:
Dear Ed:
I think that such answer as I can give to your letter of November first will be arranged in reverse orderat least I shall comment first on your final paragraph.
You keep harping on the Constitution; I should like to point out that the meaning of the Constitution is what the Supreme Court says it is. Consequently no powers are exercised by the Federal government except where such exercise is approved by the Supreme Court (lawyers) of the land.1
I admit that the Supreme Court has in the past made certain decisions in this general field that have been astonishing to me. A recent case in point was the decision in the Phillips case.2 Others, and older ones, involved interstate commerce.3 But until some future Supreme Court decision denies the right and responsibility of the Federal government to do certain things, you cannot possibly remove them from the political activities of the Federal government.
Now it is true that I believe this country is following a dangerous trend when it permits too great a degree of centralization of governmental functions. I oppose thisin some instances the fight is a rather desperate one. But to attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everythingeven to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon moderation in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas.4 Their number is negligible and they are stupid.
To say, therefore, that in some instances the policies of this Administration have not been radically changed from those of the last is perfectly true.5 Both Administrations levied taxes, both maintained military establishments, customs officials, and so on.
But in all governmental fields of action a combination of purpose, procedure and objectives must be considered if you are to get a true evaluation of the relative merits.
You say that the foreign policy of the two Administrations is the same. I suppose that even the most violent critic would agree that it is well for us to have friends in the world, to encourage them to oppose communism both in its external form and in its internal manifestations, to promote trade in the world that would be mutually profitable between us and our friends (and it must be mutually profitable or it will dry up), and to attempt the promotion of peace in the world, negotiating from a position of moral, intellectual, economic and military strength.
No matter what the party is in power, it must perforce follow a program that is related to these general purposes and aspirations. But the great difference is in how it is done and, particularly, in the results achieved.
A year ago last January we were in imminent danger of losing Iran, and sixty percent of the known oil reserves of the world. You may have forgotten this. Lots of people have. But there has been no greater threat that has in recent years overhung the free world. That threat has been largely, if not totally, removed. I could name at least a half dozen other spots of the same character.
This being true, how can anyone be so unaware of what is happening as to say that this Administration has conducted foreign affairs under the same policies as did the former Administration? As a matter of fact, if you will press any individual who brings to you all these strictures and comments, I venture that your experience will be the same as mine. That experience is that these individuals have no idea of what the foreign policy of the previous Administration was and what the present one is. They have heard certain slogans, such as give away programs. They have no slightest idea as to what has been the effect of these programs in sustaining American security and prosperity. Moreover, they have no idea whatsoever as to comparative size of them now as compared to even two or three years ago.
You say that these critics also complain about the continuance of controls, presumably over our economy. There is nothing in your letter that shows such complete ignorance as to what has actually happened as does this term. When we came into office there were Federal controls exercised over prices, wages, rents, as well as over the allocation and use of raw materials. The first thing this Administration did was to set about the elimination of those controls. This it did amid the most dire predictions of disaster, run away inflation, and so on and so on. We were proved right, but I must say that if the people of the United States do not even remember what took place, one is almost tempted to regret the agony of study, analysis and decision that was then our daily ration.
You also talk about bad political advice I am getting. I always assumed that lawyers attempted accuracy in their statements. How do you know that I am getting any political advice? Next, if I do get political advice, how do you know that it is not weighted in the direction that you seem to think it should bealthough I am tempted at times to believe that you are just thrashing around rather than thinking anything through to a definite conclusion? So how can you say I am getting bad advice; why dont you just assume I am stupid, trying to wreck the nation, and leave our Constitution in tatters?
I assure you that you have more reason, based on sixty-four years of contact, to say this than you do to make the bland assumption that I am surrounded by a group of Machiavellian characters who are seeking the downfall of the United States and the ascendancy of socialism and communism in the world. Incidentally, I notice that everybody seems to be a great Constitutionalist until his idea of what the Constitution ought to do is violatedthen he suddenly becomes very strong for amendments or some peculiar and individualistic interpretation of his own.
Finally, I must assure you again that I am delighted to get your own honest criticisms, particularly if you will only take the trouble to lay down the facts on which you reach what seem to me to be some remarkable conclusions. But the mere repetition of aphorisms and political slogans and newspaper headlines leaves me cold. I am sorry you are not going to be at Abilene.6 It would be easier to tell you these things than to write themexcept that by this method I hope to make you do a little thinking rather than devote yourself just to the winning of a noisy argument.
As ever
P.S. I attach a paragraph and a cartoon that came to me in the same mail as did your letter. At least it represents a different viewpoint. Incidentally, it comes from one of the most successful businessmen in the nation.
1 I have faith in your inherent desire to operate this country on a constitutional basis, Edgar had written, giving to the states what are legitimately their rights, and assuming for the Federal Government only those limited powers which the Constitution intended that it should have.
2 On June 7 the Supreme Court had ruled that sales of natural gas by the Phillips Petroleum Company to pipelines that distribute it in interstate commerce were subject to regulation by the Federal Power Commission. This decision gave the FPC control of a domain traditionally reserved to the states (Phillips Petroleum Co. v. State of Wisconsin et al. 347 U.S. 672 (1954)). Eisenhower deleted from this section of his earlier draft the following sentence: I think there has been some tortuous reasoning applied.
3 See for example Wickard v. Filburn, a case that upheld the federal governments power to regulate farm production even when no part of the product was intended for interstate commerce and the product was consumed on the farm where it was grown (317 U.S. 111 (1942)).
4 Haroldson Lafayette Hunt, billionaire founder of the Hunt Oil Company, had often been a champion of conservative causes. For background on Eisenhowers relations with Hunt see Galambos, Columbia University, vol. X.
5 For your information, Edgar had written, there are a great many people in all walks of life with whom I have talked, who have made the statement that there is very little difference between the policy of your administration and that of the former administration in the handling of foreign relations and many domestic programs.
6 Eisenhower would be in Abilene on November 11 for the dedication of the Eisenhower
Source: The Papers of Dwight David Eisenhower, Volume XV The Presidency: The Middle Way, Part VI: Crises Abroad, Party Problems at Home; September 1954 to December 1954, Chapter 13: A new phase of political experience
Source: https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/letter-to-edgar-newton-eisenhower/
Hypocrisy is irony that hurts people, like when removing through violence orchestrated by CIA/MI6 regime change professionals the Iranian Prime Minister Mossadegh.
David__77
(24,833 posts)Its good to see the Trump forces exposing their true ideology.
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)Never thought anyone, let alone the President of the United States, would ever voice support for genocide.
newdeal2
(5,501 posts)The pope is 100% within his rights to say whatever he wants especially about killing innocent people. I guess you dont know what morality is after working for Trump and Thiel.
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)by Nicole Winfield - Associated Press
via America Magazine, March 13, 2026
ROME (AP) One of the hottest tickets in the Vaticans backyard these days is for a four-lecture series on the Antichrist being given by Silicon Valley tech billionaire Peter Thiel.
The invitation-only conference in Rome, from Sunday to Wednesday, has proven so controversial that the Catholic universities initially associated with it have all denied official involvement.
Thiel is a co-founder of PayPal and Palantir, the data-mining company that has been assisting the Trump administrations migrant deportation crackdown. An early donor to the political career of Vice President JD Vance, Thiel is also deeply interested in the apocalyptic concept of the Antichrist and has written and lectured on it before.
Christians debated these prophecies for millennia. Who was the Antichrist? When would he arrive? What would he preach? he mused in a November essay in the Catholic magazine First Things.
Snip...
According to an announcement for the event seen by The Associated Press, the lectures were jointly organized by an Italian organization, the Vincenzo Gioberti Cultural Association, and the Cluny Institute at the Catholic University of America in Washington.
Continues...
https://www.americamagazine.org/news/2026/03/13/peter-thiel-antichrist-vatican/#:~:text=ROME%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20One%20of,the%20Catholic%20magazine%20First%20Things.
America Magazine is published by the Jesuit Order.
maxsolomon
(38,912 posts)Should never have been part of the Bible.
There is never going to be an AntiChrist. There will never be a Rapture. There will never be Second Coming.
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)It's up to us to be aware of what is happening and for which side we act -- meaning the reality we find ourselves in by chance or circumstance and the choices we make with the knowledge we have to change it.
maxsolomon
(38,912 posts)The Rapture happens every day?
Surely you mean metaphorically.
Firestorm49
(4,558 posts)Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)
HAB911
(10,479 posts)Right
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)The next two years are going to be like a scene in the "The Good Shepherd."
Matt Damon's CIA character pays a visit to Joe Pesci, the Mafia link to the Castro Assassination program.
Pesci, as Joseph Palmi, asks...

"We Italians, we've got our families and the Church. What do your people have, Mr. Wilson?"
Matt Damon, as Edward Wilson, a composite character with elements of James Jesus Angleton to Frank Terpil:
"We've got the United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting."
That pretty much sums up what America really means to old money:
"You're only here as long as we want. We own the place. And the big guns."
Heads up, Obama!
https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4747998
I can still remember local newspapers over coffee in the morning, too. And the real press.
no_hypocrisy
(55,074 posts)JD Vance: CINO (Catholic In Name Only)
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)Same goes in every religion, philosophy, art and science.
As for Vance: the guy was a nobody until billionaires found they could shape him like a clay bong.

I'm so old, the last time I saw one of those the carburetor hole was in the middle of Tricky's forehead.
LAS14
(15,522 posts)Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)Trump is the epitome of what Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, USMC (Ret) referred to as a "Racketeer." And in his rush to grab all he can as quickly as he can, even through war, Trump has almost destroyed the United States and its position as leader of the free world.
The Iran war, oil and the crisis of American imperialism
Gabriel Black
World Socialist Web Site, April 13, 2026
The US war on Iran will be remembered as a turning point in the crisis of American imperialism. Seven weeks into a conflict that has killed several thousand Iranians and nearly 2,000 Lebanese, the actual strategic result has been the opposite of what Washington intended. Far from reasserting American dominance over the Persian Gulf, the war has both exposed and deepened the declining ability of the United States to rule the global capitalist system.
Snip...
An essential aspect of Trumps contradictory messages throughout the warthreatening to obliterate Iranian civilization one moment and calling a ceasefire the nextis that he is disturbed by the lack of success of the operation and the reaction of global markets to it. He is fumbling for ideas as he buys time. The spot price for physical oil cargoes has effectively doubled since the war began. US gasoline has crossed $4 a gallon for the first time since 2022. Stock markets have posted their worst quarter since 2022.
There is a panic in the ruling class that this war will yield a win for Iran, prompting Democrats, such as Pete Buttigieg on CNBC last Friday morning, to suggest a further escalation of the war to achieve regime change.
Continues...
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/04/14/The%20-a14.html
Times are tough now. Imagine when the oligarchs who hold most of the wealth in the USA and around the world decide to start paying for oil in Euros in living in New Zealand. Of course, should we survive Trump's rush to Armageddon until that sad day.
karynnj
(61,022 posts)because he doesn't believe in international laws. So, Trump's attack was consistent with his morality. As Vance says, the Pope should speak about morality .... and per Catholic doctrine this was a war of choice and an unjust war.
Vance's book on his path to Catholicism is not likely to get an endorsement from the Pope. I hope lower level Catholic bishops and priests tell HIM to stick to his own lane and stop speaking about the church.
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)Of course, and his mouth too.
Recent days have lit a candle under the truth. He doesn't believe in international law nor the US Constitution.
Whatever happened to stopping a crooked pee-rentaldunce?
Blue Owl
(59,300 posts)Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)Pope Leo never betrayed his country.

Now, whos the loser?
AloeVera
(4,323 posts)Oh like..
Over 100 dead school girls.
Hundreds if not thousands of damaged or destroyed schools, hospitals, tens of thousands of homes?
Threats to end an entire civilization tonight?
All of it for no justifiable, moral reason.
I suspect Vance's views of morality differ from those of the Catholic Church or any other. He should be excommunicated for being an immoral, evil ass and completely ignorant of his own professed religion.
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)After the great Congrssman from Michigan passed, Putins boy told Rep. Debbie Dingel that he was looking up at her.
AloeVera
(4,323 posts)Somewhere in his shrivelled black soul he knows he's worthless.
mgardener
(2,377 posts)Would not recognize morality even if walked up to him and introduced himself.
What is more moral then, "thou shalt not kill?"
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)I think its very, very important for the Pope to be careful when he talks about matters of theology.
J D Vance, imbecile
Thanks to surfered: https://democraticunderground.com/100221177067
Journeyman
(15,464 posts)since the days of Augustine (400 AD) and Thomas Aquinas (1250 AD), so I'll grant the present-day Pope the right to weigh-in on the moral implications of an illegal war.
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)When Franco and the NAZI backed fascists came to power, Pablo Casals left his beloved Catalonia until the day democracy returned to Spain. While he would not live to see that day, Casals did live a good life.

As opposed to those who think others are chattel.
kentuck
(115,453 posts)Who does he think he is! The Pope?
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)Trump harms girls sexually.Trump harms children through illegal, immoral, unnecessary and criminal enacted war.
The bombing of kids matches the other actions of a man who would harm children sexually. Trump kills strangers indiscriminately without a second thought, routinely.
Like Harlan Ellison wrote: I have no mouth and I must scream!
JBTaurus83
(1,541 posts)He can start with Dump!
SocialDemocrat61
(7,774 posts)ColoringFool
(807 posts)lame54
(39,884 posts)Passages
(4,267 posts)maxsolomon
(38,912 posts)Excommunicado for Jaydee!
Maeve
(43,476 posts)Thou shalt not kill, one of the top ten
sop
(18,880 posts) 'A budget is a moral document.' That was my opening statement at a news conference and prayer vigil of church leaders yesterday across from the steps of the U.S. Capitol. We represented a wide spectrum of the Christian families of America Protestant, Catholic, evangelical, African-American, Hispanic, Pentecostal, Orthodox. We were there to commit ourselves to form a 'circle of protection' (also the name of our broad coalition) around the poor and vulnerable who are at great risk in President Donald Trump's proposed budget. 'Let me say it again: A budget is a moral document,' I repeated with energy and passion."
"This was originally a statement of principle from the religious community said to politicians a decade ago. Some politicians now quote it, and even some media pundits point to it; but it was a religious statement from the beginning. I know that because I was in the room when it was first discussed."
"Any budget is a moral statement of priorities, whether it's a budget created by an individual, a family, a school, a city, or a nation. It tells us, mathematically, what areas, issues, things, or people are most important to the creators of that budget, and which are least important."
More at link:
https://sojo.net/articles/opinion/truth-bears-repeating-budget-moral-document
Every time Trump asks for more military spending, funded by cuts to social programs, it's a moral statement. Every time the Pope talks about war, poverty and social justice, he's talking about the moral choices made by government budgets.
-misanthroptimist
(1,674 posts)...since you and your boss have immorality covered."
jcboon
(353 posts)MineralMan
(151,410 posts)Of young girls with missiles? A moral act?
Emrys
(9,168 posts)kairos12
(13,634 posts)go and confess your Sofa sins.
malaise
(296,866 posts)Ah well.
Kid Berwyn
(24,688 posts)The plutocrats and oligarchs need top protection for the safe operation of their rackets.

How the roots of the PayPal mafia extend to apartheid South Africa
Elon Musk grew up with the privileges of a stratified racial order and Peter Thiel lived in a city that venerated Hitler
by Chris McGreal
The Guardian, January 26, 2025
Excerpt...
They include Peter Thiel, the German-born billionaire venture capitalist and PayPal cofounder, who was educated in a southern African city in the 1970s where Hitler was still openly venerated. Thiel, a major donor to Trumps campaign, has been critical of welfare programs and women being permitted to vote as undermining capitalism. A 2021 biography of Thiel, called The Contrarian, alleged that as a student at Stanford he defended apartheid as economically sound.
David Sacks, formerly PayPals chief operating officer and now a leading fundraiser for Trump, was born in Cape Town and grew up within the South African diaspora after his family moved to the US when he was young. A fourth member of the mafia, Roelof Botha, the grandson of the apartheid regimes last foreign minister, Pik Botha, and former PayPal CFO, has kept a lower political profile but remains close to Musk.
Among them, Musk stands out for his ownership of X, which is increasingly a platform for far-right views, and his proximity to Trump, who has nominated Musk to head a department of government efficiency to slash and burn its way through the federal bureaucracy.
Snip...
The week before the inauguration, Steve Bannon, Trumps former adviser, described white South Africans as the most racist people on earth, questioned their involvement in US politics and said Musk was a malign influence who should go back to the country of his birth.
Snip...
The South Africa into which Musk was born in 1971, and to which Thiel moved as a child from Germany, was led by a prime minister, John Vorster, who had been a general in a fascist militia three decades earlier that allied itself with Hitler.
Continues...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/26/elon-musk-peter-thiel-apartheid-south-africa
They use their wealth to destroy America in order to protect their loot, successfully so far.
malaise
(296,866 posts)Rec
Autumn
(48,977 posts)Not one person in Trump orbit even knows what morality means.
ecstatic
(35,088 posts)A Yale graduate who doesn't think matters of war and peace or how we treat "foreigners" in our country has anything to do with morality? Are you fucking kidding me? 🙄
First of all, those topics are directly addressed in the Bible, so it actually is the Pope's business.
Second, Jv is a goofy, mascara wearing clown. The more he talks, the more I smell a rat with regard to his trajectory into power. How did he get elected to the US Senate with no experience and no charisma? Was he installed by one of his buddies (musk, thiel)?
LetMyPeopleVote
(180,646 posts)If the White House sees a political upside to its increasingly outlandish papal rebukes, its mistaken.
As JD Vance presses the pope to be âcareful when he talks about matters of theologyâ â no, seriously, thatâs what he said â a simple question hands overhead:
— Steve Benen (@stevebenen.com) 2026-04-15T12:59:00.596Z
What exactly is the White Houseâs strategy here? Do Trump and Vance think the pope will be bullied into silence?
www.ms.now/rachel-maddo...
https://www.ms.now/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/vance-trump-pope-catholic-church
On Monday night, JD Vance appeared on Fox News and insisted that it would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality and let the president of the United States stick to dictating American public policy. Putting aside the fact that the president isnt supposed to be dictating anything, the Ohio Republicans advice didnt make a lot of sense: The pope drew Trumps ire by speaking out on matters such as a deadly and destabilizing war in the Middle East and the plight of immigrants seeking a better life, both of which are, by any reasonable measure, matters of morality.
A day later, he upped the ante in an unexpected way. NBC News reported:
Vice President JD Vance said Tuesday that Pope Leo XIV should be careful when he talks about theology, rebuking the pontiff over his criticisms of U.S. foreign policy.
Vance argued that the pope, who has said Jesus is never on the side of those who once wielded the sword and today drop bombs, was failing to take into account conflicts such as World War II.
....Do Trump and Vance believe Leo will be intimidated into silence? Are they trying to send a signal to other religious leaders opposed to the war? Do they believe they can discredit the pontiff, who enjoys stronger public support than they do? Do the Republicans think theyll appear tough by picking a fight with the Vatican? Is this all some sort of elaborate distraction campaign?
I wont pretend to know their motivation, but if Trump and Vance see a political upside to their increasingly outlandish papal scoldings, theyre mistaken.
Cha
(319,548 posts)For "moraity". 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
blue-wave
(5,359 posts)Hi Cha!!
Cha
(319,548 posts)duckworth969
(1,390 posts)Did the couch consent or did you force yourself on it!?
No self-respecting couch would you give you the time of day! They probably grab the first plastic couch cover or small doily they can find when you enter a room.
Youre a monster with a very punchable overly smug face. Gonna git yours someday ya lousy pinhead!