General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsKHAMENEI DEAD
I don't grave dance or wish death upon anyone... but Imma go grab a burger
https://www.reuters.com/world/iran-crisis-live-explosions-tehran-israel-announces-strike-2026-02-28/
Neda Agha-Soltan, motherfucker...
sarisataka
(22,414 posts)Single source reports often can be less than fully accurate.
That said, it is plausible that the US/Israel were aware of his "secure location"
rsdsharp
(11,923 posts)You just put a legitimate target on your large, orange ass, as well as Bibis.
chicoescuela
(2,954 posts)BannonsLiver
(20,435 posts)Ohhh with the edgy sign off at the end too
Celerity
(54,068 posts)presidential election protests with her music teacher, and was walking back to her car when she was fatally shot in the upper chest.
Eyewitnesses are reported by Western sources as saying Agha-Soltan was shot by a militiaman belonging to Basij paramilitary organization. Her death was captured on video by bystanders and broadcast over the Internet, and the video became a rallying point for the opposition. Agha-Soltan's death sparked renewed protests against the disputed election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Neda_Agha-Soltan
سازمان بسیج مستضعفین 'Organization for Mobilization of the Oppressed'
dem4decades
(13,939 posts)They are surely going to honor him with one.
Arazi
(8,843 posts)Like Venezuela, take out the lead bad guy, declare victory and then just accept the same tyrannical regime
LeftInTX
(34,060 posts)He'll make sure that Iran is crippled enough not to be an immediate threat to Israel and then he'll cut the chase.
Greg_In_SF
(1,184 posts)n/t
hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)And as one who has had some ties to Iran since 1977 (no, I am not Iranian but I have spent time there in the last years of the Shah), I sadly don't have a lot faith in things getting better there very soon. The people are not armed, after all. WTF did Trump et al think would allow them to depose the current power structures with a mere bombing campaign and an unarmed population? Obviously he did not undertake this out of any concern for the people or even a modicum of democracy.
We shall see...It is tragic. Most Americans are unbelievably ignorant about Iran--Tehran specifically. They are an incredibly well-educated people even despite the horrific theocracy that followed a US-placed autocrat, the Shah, whose own corruption and deadly secret police (SAVAK) inevitably led to his own downfall. Trump is ignorant enough to have thought Iran to be a hapless, uneducated third-world country--ya know those "shit-hole" countries he loves to talk about.
WarGamer
(18,429 posts)hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)Or are you simply being sarcastic? I certainly hope this could happen but there is nothing currently that suggests the "ingredients" are there to make it so. Yes there is a populace that seeks a departure from an Islamic theocracy,, but they are not empowered and the simple demise of this one man and the hope of a democracy-seeking younger populace does not empower them alone.
WarGamer
(18,429 posts)There is a wide opening for a Democratic leader to emerge... it's up to the Iranians
hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)I'd love for it to be so and for Iran to be the vibrant country it once was less the horrific corruption and behind-the-scenes horrific secret police of the Shah. But a vacuum is filled quickly and I have few doubts (as does our current CIA) that the Islamic theocrats have someone waiting in the wings or at least those prepared to preserve the theocracy via violence toward the people.
WarGamer
(18,429 posts)then it can change.
Shrub, among his many mistakes didn't offer immunity to police and military and Ba'ath party to rejoin society...
if the current offer of immunity is legit... we could see a reversal in the military.
We'll see
SSJVegeta
(2,667 posts)That in itself suggests an end to the theocracy
On edit: not confirmed. But I think Hassan Khomenei is agreed on by most to be the msot likely.
SSJVegeta
(2,667 posts)"Unempowered" is a propaganda term that hopes those forces dont know their true strength.
hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)Maybe that is something you might consider before making such absoluteist and accusatory statements.
We are all hopeful that the people in any conflict, any authoritarian or dictatorial regime, will prevail. But, against the armed, they often do not. That is what is so damned frightening in this country, as an authoritarian and a private heavily armed force answerable to no one but the authoritarian has arisen. No one here or elsewhere is suggesting that people should not rise up in protest nonetheless, as I'd bet a very large proportion of DUers (myself included--have YOU?) have been doing. But to do so in the US or most countries is not the same as having had the brutality and ruthless murder of the Ayatollahs since 1979, and in the face of their current murder of thousands on the street today.
wnylib
(25,598 posts)becoming the new leader t. I think the backing for that idea comes from the US.
If the Shah, Jr (can't remember his name) takes over Iran, I would not hold my breath waiting for a democracy. His father was a brutal dictator, which is why the revolution occurred that overhrew his govt. If the son is like the father, no democracy will develop.
WarGamer
(18,429 posts)But no we don't need another authoritarian.
Amishman
(5,923 posts)A pro western petty dictator would still probably a huge improvement for the Iranian people, especially for women.
wnylib
(25,598 posts)overthrew it in the 1950s and installed a dictatorship in order to preserve US/UK oil profits.
Trump recently overthrew Venezuela's leader in order to commandeer Venezuelan oil and left the dictatorial regime in place in Venezuela.
Do you see a pattern here? It is about the US taking over the world's oil supplies in order to control the world. Nobody could fight back against a US world dictatorship if the US controls the oil necessary to fuel weapons. Look what the oil embargo is doing to Cuba.
Seeking Serenity
(3,322 posts)His name is Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi.
wnylib
(25,598 posts)Seeking Serenity
(3,322 posts)LeftInTX
(34,060 posts)He's popular with the exiles. And that's where this "draft Reza Pahlavi" is coming.
One of his daughters is married to a Jewish guy. And Reza himself is fairly cozy with Netanyahu
He will never survive being a leader in Iran and I don't think aspires to become another "shah". I think he would like to return to his home country as many exiles would like to. Many would just love to visit. He can't even visit and hasn't been there for almost 50 years.
There was more serious talk of him being an transition advisor. However, a government would need to be formed that is amiable to even having him as an advisor. I think the Revolutionary Guard would kill him if he tried to return.
AZProgressive
(29,904 posts)The US overthrow their leader when they elected their version of Bernie Sanders who nationalized oil production and kicked BP out of the country.
If Iran sold out a long time ago to US commercial interests this would have never happened to them and they would have been able to keep whatever form of government they wish.
If we were so interested in Democracy in Southwest Asia we would install it in Saudi Arabia but they are friendly to US business interests.
rurallib
(64,645 posts)Chances are slim and slimmer.
Polybius
(21,753 posts)Well, his son anyway. And I'm ok with that.
Gore1FL
(22,918 posts)In any case, expect the price to heat a home or fill a gas-tank to double.
Polybius
(21,753 posts)Seeking Serenity
(3,322 posts)All because "muh Trump hate" I guess.
AZProgressive
(29,904 posts)Situations like that tend to lead to World Wars. Obama could have taken out Putin years ago but there are rules and norms against that sort of thing.
What about another country from taking out Trump to please Americans that fled America because of Trump?
Seeking Serenity
(3,322 posts)As for a foreign government "taking out" one of our leaders, even a president, that's always been on the table for anyone brave or reckless or desperate or stupid enough to try it.
AZProgressive
(29,904 posts)and do not agree that it should be up to Trump's own morality as to whether international law is followed by him. I don't really think the rules are being enforced especially when it comes to Gaza but that it is because the US doesn't have a President willing to enforce international law when it his own sick morals that limits what will or won't do.
Seeking Serenity
(3,322 posts)But law and rules only exist between people, societies, nations that agree to follow them. The Islamic regime had made it perfectly clear that it didn't care, sanctions, payoffs, strongly worded letters, and International tut-tutting notwithstanding.
My idealism was stolen when my home got burgled several years ago.
WarGamer
(18,429 posts)AZProgressive
(29,904 posts)for 3 decades.
WarGamer
(18,429 posts)hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)for this theocratic regime? Who? Where? You made the accusation, which I find to be so demonstrably false on a global level as to be inexplicable that you would make it. SUPPORT IT.
LeftInTX
(34,060 posts)This group has infiltrated the Democratic Party and protest groups. They had their own presidential candidate, but also supported Jill Stein and Cornell West.
Keep in mind Putin supports the Iranian regime.
They hate Trump, so the attitude is, "Enemy of my enemy".
They also hate Israel.
hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)that infiltrate the Dem/Progressive Party valid members of our party and causes any more than I consider internet bot trolls to be valid voices for anything.
LeftInTX
(34,060 posts)I think my disdain for them has spilled over into DU also.
They are very loud and aggressive.
hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)San Antonio is a hotspot for them?
LeftInTX
(34,060 posts)I think they're kinda all over the place though...If you go to a protest, you will often see their signs. The signs have bold letters and always have the PSL logo and the name of their party at the bottom of their signs.
hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)worse than the Ayatollahs. That would be the worst strawman argument you could make, but likewise shows a desire to ignore that there was horrific brutality under the Shah, while likewise a demonstrable improvement and progression for Iran as a whole--both economically, for education, and as a more secular country. But for those whose bodies were left by SAVAK on the Iranian desert for even incredibly minor "offenses," including teens (something I know about firsthand as the child of one of the many American corporate employees assigned to Iran), all was not the rosy time you and most Americans PREFER to believe.
Do not continue with the insinuation that pointing this out is somehow suggesting support for Islamic theocracy and all the horror it has brought. Polybius, you are better than that. Such a strawman argument is really unforgivable. Perhaps you will state that yours was a global comment, but you did direct it to me.
Polybius
(21,753 posts)I apologize for wording my reply poorly. I was directing my comment to those who I thought said he was worse. Your quote was this:
Looking back, it turns out that I even misunderstood the quote. This is embarrassing, and I will make sure I word my replies better in the future.
hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)I greatly appreciate your reply. All good.
róisín_dubh
(12,297 posts)are incredibly ignorant about most things, Im sorry to say
Response to WarGamer (Original post)
Kingofalldems This message was self-deleted by its author.
EarlG
(23,560 posts)Assuming this report is true, the dude was 86 years old. He would have popped off on his own within a few years if he hadn't been blown up today. Surely there is going to be a successor lined up, and surely there will have been one lined up for quite some time.
I'm not sure that removing this particular asshole is going to have any measurable effect on Iran whatsoever, other than providing Iranian nationalists with a holy martyr to rally around.
Disclaimer: I am not an expert on Iran, I'm merely pretending to be one on the Internet.
WarGamer
(18,429 posts)This isn't a situation where the next bad guy can assume the office... the question at this point is simply... will the people rise up and demand a Democracy?
Also, Iran isn't iraq... we won't see a repeat of the sectarian civil war we did there...
hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)WarGamer
(18,429 posts)We'll find out soon.
hlthe2b
(113,511 posts)in recent decades--if ever. They can analyze what info they receive but when we lost actual people on the ground, CIA lost the pretense of being the super intelligence agency once projected. After all, they totally MISSED the rising anger that led to the deposing of the Shah.
BannonsLiver
(20,435 posts)Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #15)
WarGamer This message was self-deleted by its author.
BannonsLiver
(20,435 posts)So thats where the divergence is. Nation building had gone poorly for us in the past, even when attempts at it were executed by people who, despite their own idiocy, were far more competent than the current regime.
I think this has been interesting in that it shows youre actually very pro war, despite frequent comments to the contrary. Unless of course we are talking about Ukraine defending itself from a brutal invasion. Then not so much.
WarGamer
(18,429 posts)Look what happened in Egypt with Mubarak... nation building gone bad. And Iraq!!
I don't believe war is necessary in the 21st century and can't support it. But when it HAPPENS... it's fair to examine the possibilities.
It all comes down to the Iranians.
Another Jackalope
(157 posts)Just sayin'.
EarlG
(23,560 posts)We'll see, I guess.
WarGamer
(18,429 posts)I'd be overjoyed if the Iranians could elect their own leaders and build their own future
EarlG
(23,560 posts)I think we can be advocates for a peaceful, democratic Iran while also recognizing that what's going on here is an illegal war by a autocratic president, which he has undertaken for his own personal benefit, without clear explanation or strategy. The most likely outcome is going to be chaos. Don't be surprised if it involves crackdowns inside the U.S. as well as inside Iran.
LudwigPastorius
(14,507 posts)They are more likely to rise up and demand retribution.
Nothing brings internal enemies together like an external enemy.
SSJVegeta
(2,667 posts)Largely the moderate Hassan Khomenei has been considered the most likely.
The assembly of experts will probably make the final decision within a few days.
Buckeyeblue
(6,324 posts)ananda
(34,761 posts)I expect it will be like Venezuela, by proxy.
thought crime
(1,442 posts)Kingofalldems
(40,141 posts)WarGamer
(18,429 posts)BannonsLiver
(20,435 posts)gulliver
(13,897 posts)I'm hoping the Iranian people finally get the freedom we all deserve
Jspur
(797 posts)who becomes the leader after Khamenei gets killed. It's not as simple as killing him or his family that you can instantly install a puppet leader. Iran has set it up in a way that there is large tree of leaders that follow if one is assassinated. For example lets say Leader A is suppose to replace Khameni and gets killed then there is Leader B ready to take the spot and if B gets killed then they have C, D, E, F, G, etc.
Arazi
(8,843 posts)Theres a vast network of upper echelon Iranian fanatics to get through before Reza Pahlavi could even think of being installed into a leadership position
fujiyamasan
(1,509 posts)I just dont trust the US/Israel, and certainly not Iranian propaganda.
As for the Ayatollha, fuck that guy. I wish the Iranian people had the satisfaction of being responsible for his death. Lets hope that a few other 80 something year old leaders meet their fate soon.
Boo1
(268 posts)That make me think democracy won't spring up.
BannonsLiver
(20,435 posts)dpibel
(3,854 posts)I don't...but...
There's this other person who says "I can't say this" and then says it. I'm trying to call the name to mind.
W_HAMILTON
(10,291 posts)WarGamer
(18,429 posts)W_HAMILTON
(10,291 posts)So, let me get this straight, this military action that you sound downright giddy about, have you spoken out against it?
Are you calling for it to stop?
If it were up to you, this guy that you were so happy to see assassinated, would he still be alive today?
Raine
(31,152 posts)Iggo
(49,849 posts)Next man up.
Seeking Serenity
(3,322 posts)The people of Iran have truly suffered enough over the past 47 years.
Melon
(1,342 posts)There will be celebrations in Iran and abroad for Iranians whoever wanted to return to Iran someday.
That is all.
mvd
(65,888 posts)1) The Trump administration wasnt so incompetent and corrupt
2) Iran had any history of democracy
3) If these Middle East wars ever turned out well
mr715
(3,349 posts)I am worried about the UN in the wake of this.
You and I agree on a lot: I don't know where this leads.
Ferrets are Cool
(22,741 posts)Regime change brought on by 'Merica never works out good for the involved country.
Shrek
(4,411 posts)If he's dead then the world is slightly better than it was.
Ferrets are Cool
(22,741 posts)Raine
(31,152 posts)one less evil person off this earth is a good thing