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3Hotdogs

(15,201 posts)
2. Nice, but unlikely he used the name, United States in the 1700's. Possible, but not likely.
Fri Feb 20, 2026, 07:17 AM
Yesterday

3Hotdogs

(15,201 posts)
4. Wanna have more fun, Google 'Native American Red Jacket" and his 1806 speech about religion.
Fri Feb 20, 2026, 07:29 AM
Yesterday

wnylib

(25,427 posts)
10. Now that speech is a really good one.
Sat Feb 21, 2026, 10:33 AM
8 hrs ago

I have read it. It is an excellent, logically laid out comparison of values and beliefs that puts Nat8ve religion on an equal footing with Christianity. It was his response to missionaries who sought permission to proselytize among the Seneca people.

Red Jacket was a great orator. That speech could be summarized by a message in the Christian Bible, "By their fruits you will know them." He ends the speech with the comment that they will observe the White missionaries to see how they live before giving an answer to their request.

(One of my grandmother's Seneca ancestors was related to Red Jacket.)





wnylib

(25,427 posts)
9. Or totally made up story.
Sat Feb 21, 2026, 10:23 AM
8 hrs ago

It's a common thing. When somebody wants to sound like they have a profound message, they attribute it to some supposedly mystical Native American.

3Hotdogs

(15,201 posts)
12. An extraordinary example of that, book written about 1970. "The Education of Little Tree."
Sat Feb 21, 2026, 06:10 PM
1 hr ago

Purported to tell the story of a boy who was orphaned and raised by his grandmother. I believe they were supposed to be Cherokee. And it told of folk stories, nature survival hints and Native American values. The book was used in classrooms and won awards.

The book was written by Asa Carter, under the pen name, Forest Carter. Asa Carter was the speechwriter for George Wallace who wrote Wallace's speech, Segregation now, segregation forever,

Sympthsical

(10,912 posts)
13. I typically wait until the warlock community chimes in
Sat Feb 21, 2026, 06:48 PM
29 min ago

Before making most major decisions. It's how I got into Nvidia stock. Bones and egg shells.

The Noble Savage trope is always so . . . cringingly patronizingly racist.

And think of how it endures when any other religion is viewed skeptically. No, no. This magic sky spirit is different!

Yeah yeah. I once watched shaman try to shake rattles and smoke at cancer.

It went exactly as expected.

Mix in how much of this spirituality and religion is mostly made up and sold to westerners as enlightened gaia spiritualism. A lot of Native cultures were completely erased during the genocides and the plagues. Entire histories wiped out to the point that a lot of the traditions and religious beliefs died out in the 17th and 18th centuries. Old people don't do so well in a pandemic, and that's where the bulk of oral history was kept. Not a lot of it endured.

Which leaves a great, big massive hole through which grifters could enter. And boy howdy did they. To the unfortunate gullibility of spiritually starved westerners who are just wandering around New Mexico trying to feel something.

Stargazer99

(3,504 posts)
8. Any one with an education would understand the past tense in my post and it would be clear understanding
Sat Feb 21, 2026, 10:04 AM
9 hrs ago

RoseTrellis

(144 posts)
11. Longevity is rare
Sat Feb 21, 2026, 10:39 AM
8 hrs ago

I’d say we are actually doing better than average. The typical duration of nation-states, or more broadly, political regimes and countries, is often cited by historians and political scientists as being between 200 and 250 years. This timeframe is commonly associated with significant, transformative upheavals in government, rather than the complete erasure of a culture or population.

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