To negotiate you start with ABOLISH ICE

Then the other sides say OMG no - how about we'll remove masks

Then your side says...

etc.

What a joke

Democrats will get pummeled if they say abolish ICE, there's another way.

DHS funding expires Feb. 13th, if Democrats were to just demand that the Gestapo goons must follow the law, such as having local and state police be allowed to investigate the Good/Pretti killings and any other shootings, with full access to evidence collected by the Feds, guess what, Congressional Magats will not agree to that. Then let the funding expire and blame Magats for not agreeing to reasonable rules.

Democrats have the upper hand here if they stay strong, but Schumer and Jeffries are off to an awful start.

ppl want to fight. if there’s no 1 w any fire, they’ll stay home.

Fuck these cowardly republican-appeasing "moderates".

It's too late for that.

I've thought this for a long time.

the Overton Window to the right.

I had to look it up, and that is exactly right.

It makes what used to be unacceptable, acceptable.

were called moderate Democrats not too long ago.

The mainstream Republicans we have now used to be the fringe, the nutjob theocrats on the far right.

Would Democrats will get pummeled if they said abolish ICE?

Last poll I saw, a hefty chunk of the electorate deeply fucking hates ICE now, so abolishing ICE and CBP would not be the extreme political belly flop it once was. However, it would require significant effort to massage this idea smoothly into the news cycle of a press deeply embedded in F47's anus, which is perhaps why they took the alternate approach they did.

Your 2nd-para take is likely how events unfold, but somehow Schumer and Jeffries make the Democrats look weak even when we're getting a strategic win. Somehow it comes off as lesser, underpowered, careless, even when it's the best Dems could reasonably do. This is just bad PR. Granted, the media hill has become quite steep over the last decade, but someone other than Sen. Schumer needs to be announcing party positioning on important issues.

You never start negotiations with the very least that you would settle for. That's what I say. But who am I? They are playing a game that is so sophisticated and so far above our meager understanding that we cannot even begin to fathom just what the hell it is that they are doing. I'm sure it will all work out great. It's been good so far, hasn't it?

It was created in the wake of 9/11 but it's a behemoth with too much power and too little oversight. If we break it up, not funding DHS is no longer related to things like FEMA

assaults on protestors, terrorizing of children, and then we can talk. Till then, you better not be asking us for anything."

Instead, while they're pulling that shit and making no plans to stop, we're going to get into a conversation on when masks are acceptable?

What is wrong with those people?

Make the Gestapo get court warrants before busting into private property.
Allow local and state police to investigate the Good/Pretti killings. Investigate every time a Gestapo goon fires his weapon, regular police get investigated.
Demand that local politicians, lawyers, the members of the MSM, clergy, be allowed in concentration camps.

Schumer and Jeffries, come up with a list of those demands and then get your people united to not vote for funding until those demands are met.

I feel that Democrats are going to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.

ICE does not wear a mask
wears a visible badge with serial number.
and a visible name plate.

that isn't enough, doesn't identify who they work for.

More importantly, why can't they have the courage to hold firm and say NO NEGOTIATIONS ON THIS POINT?

Get rid of the masks or shut down DHS.

about saying ‘abolish ice’

I never agreed with the "defund police" mantra. But I agree that ICE should be abolished.

it was just too short. but saying ‘reform’ doesnt work, cuz that’s been tried over and over and over, and nobody buys that any more.
defund doesnt mean abolish. it means take away their spendy toys, and send other professionals to do the shit cops dont want to do anyway. i never cd come up w a pithy way to say that, tho. i’m usually pretty good at that. explaining complex things to idiots may b impossible in this enshittified age.

It was an asinine talking point. That said, Minneapolis has come a long way since the dark days of Bob Kroll, thankfully!

that they used to counter defund the police are actual accountability the leadership pushed "reform" such as body cameras which hasn't made the police less violent and a lot of footage from body cameras never see the light of day. The same playbook they used to counter outrage against police they are using for ICE.

I agree with you as far as ICE not being as important as local police departments but Democratic leadership is using the same playbook against real ICE accountability the same as they countered outrage over the local police departments.

will be used to intimidate voters. They’re saying what the game plan is. Complaining after they steal an election isn’t going to do us any good.

but Congressional Democrats have to be smart about it.

Make the demands, strong demands, and sure as shit, Congressional Magats will say no. Well then when Feb. 13th rolls around, funding for DHS expires and Magats can be blamed for it.

I hope Democrats are smart enough to do just that!

but still don't know why I'm supposed to be angry.

Complicity and collaboration, not confrontation!


#antifademocratsforrevengeandretribution

The biggest scum control the trifecta, and we have the most feeble leadership to combat them.

Once again, the Dems don’t inspire me to vote for them, MAGA inspires me to vote against them.

I want to vote FOR politicians who will kick fascist ass. Not look for ways to appease them.

Do you remember?



FIGHT FOR WHAT'S RIGHT.

As I said in another thread...

They might as well get ahead of the ridiculous reasons Republicans will use to shoot down any restrictions on masks whatsoever.

"Well, Democrats are trying to get them all killed when the next pandemic hits"

"Democrats want make sure the cartels know who's family to target whenever we have agents communicating with informants"

Just take those talking points away from them now instead of having to explain themselves later. Put an iron clad proposal on the table that refutes as many of their disingenuous arguments as possible.

The goal is for ICE/BP to be held to the same standards as regular police officers as far as identifying oneself. Lets make sure that happens.

I'll also add, that you if you read what they are proposing, it will effectively prove that they hired a bunch of untrained, white supremacist, proud boy, militia types.

The ICE agents are running up against more and more coordinated IT.

It's a bit scary what self-organized groups are now capable of doing. I like official government agencies that conform to the law and are paid by taxpayers. I don't know who any of these other people are, and I don't think anyone does. Even they don't know who they are. They are routinely infiltrated, as we see in the news.

If Schumer and Jeffries carve out circumstances where ICE agents wear a masks, I trust their judgment.

when state, county and local police aren't?

Or do you think all law enforcement should be permitted to operate masked and without having to show badge numbers or other identification?

What makes ICE the exception? Aren't all members of law enforcement vulnerable to "self-organized groups?"

Badge numbers and ID are absolutely necessary, imo.

We can't have arbitrary groups using cheap IT to track and potentially attack law enforcement though. It's just becoming too easy to do. If left unchecked, law enforcement can become impossible to staff or perform. I think the democracy absolutely wants and absolutely needs laws.

The solution is to investigate, indict, and convict those that target LE using due process and the proper legal venues as established under our constitution.

Not to grant thousands of federal law enforcement agents virtual immunity from any consequences for their illegal and in some cases physically abusive and even lethal behavior by making it impossible to determine who among them are themselves breaking the law.

Personally, as a rape survivor, I have real problems with the idea of masked, heavily armed and unidentified men pulling people, including women and children, into unmarked vans. We already have instances of people pretending to be ICE committing sexual assaults and robberies. Of course, since we don't know who are ICE and who aren't, we can't be sure that at least some of these assaults weren't being committed by actual ICE agents.

Yes, democracy needs laws. And it needs law enforcement that is answerable to the people. Not a secret police force evidently answerable to no one but themselves.

There's a reason why every tyranny in history has valued the services of a secret police.

Not the other way around.

These are the same MAGAt assholes who refused to wear a mask to prevent the spread of a deadly disease.

But it's OK with you to wear a mask to hide their identity when they murder, assault, and brutalize us?????

Jesus H Christ, this is why we lose, and why we're doomed.


Fuck!!!

Fuck all that noise. Just contemptible.

They wear their name on their uniform, their badge number, their face is fully visible and they have body cameras.

This does not eliminate all problems, but it does serve as a deterrent. Let's not be naive.

The reason ICE is acting like a bunch of berzerker thugs, killing innocent civilians and pillaging and destroying everything in their path, is because they feel absolutely free to do so with no penalty of backlash because their faces are covered and they can't be identified. If their faces are uncovered, their behavior will improve. We weren't having these issues with people interested in doxxing ICE before because ICE wasn't a gang of 7 thugs surrounding an ICU nurse and executing him in the streets, or executing a mom who'd just dropped her kid off at school.

We don't have cases where other types of law enforcement (local, state, FBI, reservation, etc.) are being doxxed. If our elected Dem leaders see that as a problem and want to do something to curb it, including with masks, I trust them.

that a complete list of ICE agents be provided to Democratic leadership, with the understanding that the names will be cross referenced to look for convicted felons, January 6th rioters, people with a history of domestic or other violence, members of far right groups such as the Proud Boys, etc.

I repeat: this should happen BEFORE money is approved, since we know this administration will ignore any restrictions or regulations once they have the money, just as they've ignored the law on releasing the Epstein files.

A paycheck and carrying a gun is the only reason these goons are ICE-holes.

meant for the kid's trade school that mom saved up working two jobs.

If those don't function as work uniforms, mom is really pissed.

If we can't say "abolish ICE"...

I don't think our Congress can see the forest for the trees (using a tired old idiom).

NO!

Shut down the government!
DEFUND ICE.

General strike!

We’ve lost time negotiating with republicans.

They are murderers and rapists.

Wake up!

,After the press conference, Schumer ignored a question from HuffPost about whether Democrats had changed their position on masks. But Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), who joined Jeffries and Schumer behind the lectern, said there has been no significant shift.

“Just common sense dictates that there are sometimes safety reasons why you may need a mask,” Murphy told HuffPost. “But no, I think our position is very clear, that if you’re using a mask to obscure your identity in everyday law enforcement, that should be prohibited by law.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/democrats-soften-their-demand-to-ban-masks-for-ice/ar-AA1VG28T

Seems like he doesn't disagree with Schumer and Jeffries.

They said it, he had to walk it back.

Why did they say it in the first place? What was the point of that?

Period

Says no one...