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Why Democrats must expand the Supreme Court (Original Post) Fiendish Thingy Dec 19 OP
The reform must be durable. Just adding 4 seats and nothing else is an exerise in futility. Wanderlust988 Dec 20 #1
We cannot govern out of fear of what republicans might do Fiendish Thingy Dec 20 #3
Hear, hear Cirsium Dec 20 #5
You're wanting to govern out of anger. You need to play the long view, not a short term sugar high Wanderlust988 Dec 20 #8
You are completely wrong Fiendish Thingy Dec 20 #12
Your first two solutions would require a Constitutional Amendment. SCOTUS Expansion does not. Celerity Dec 20 #4
This is the way! In It to Win It Dec 20 #9
I don't see anything explicitly stating lifetime terms tinrobot Dec 20 #27
Article III states that these judges "hold their office during good behavior," which means they have a lifetime Celerity Dec 20 #33
While the USSC is being revamped the justices should be split up and required to live and reside in the circuit they are in2herbs Dec 20 #31
100 justices Cirsium Dec 20 #6
The building is too small n/t Polybius Dec 20 #11
There is that Cirsium Dec 20 #21
Use the ballroom. Qutzupalotl Dec 20 #28
Not if the justices were required to live and reside in the circuit they have been assigned. in2herbs Dec 20 #32
I agree. Far more judges and rotate the benches they sit on so they cannot travelingthrulife Dec 20 #15
"some of the justices are assigned randomly and term limits" Polybius Dec 20 #10
So what? The Constitution was designed as a living document. We won't survive another court travelingthrulife Dec 20 #16
Well, a Amendment like that won't pass any time soon for one ITAL Dec 20 #17
I'm just saying that it's not an easy process Polybius Dec 20 #34
Gonna have to win several elections. Silent Type Dec 20 #2
I'm sure you can get bipartisan support to add them right now. hardluck Dec 20 #7
January 2029 is the time Fiendish Thingy Dec 20 #13
This actually makes me quite nervous Thunder Chicken Dec 20 #18
Republicans would have to kill the filibuster to expand the court Fiendish Thingy Dec 20 #19
Unless the Republicans do it first. Qutzupalotl Dec 20 #29
We should add 20-30 judges or more. Our population has grown, why not the USSC? travelingthrulife Dec 20 #14
Can't be an arms race.. RoseTrellis Dec 20 #20
Overall, I think it's a bad idea Renew Deal Dec 20 #22
The more the merrier Fiendish Thingy Dec 20 #24
Jamelle lacks imagination Seeking Serenity Dec 20 #23
Expanding the court and governing fearlessly will provide that result. Nt Fiendish Thingy Dec 20 #25
Explain, por favor Seeking Serenity Dec 20 #26
Impeachment for ignoring the Constitution is an adequate remedy bucolic_frolic Dec 20 #30
Do you guys have a Supreme Court in Canada? BannonsLiver Dec 20 #35
Reversing the criminal Citizens United decision is imperative Mysterian Dec 20 #36

Wanderlust988

(729 posts)
1. The reform must be durable. Just adding 4 seats and nothing else is an exerise in futility.
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 12:02 AM
Dec 20

It will bring short term pleasure but long term pain. The next time Republicans take over, they'll just add 20 Trumpist judges. It's just going to be a silly arms race until we get 100 justice on the Court. This is not serious and will be bad for the long term future of our democracy.

We need a plan to make the Court's some of the justices are assigned randomly and term limits. For our country to continue, we need to have a Court where no one can predict an outcome...either way. There are many ideas of reforms that I support that are more durable that just simply add justices and go home. This is not healthy in the long term.

Fiendish Thingy

(22,061 posts)
3. We cannot govern out of fear of what republicans might do
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 12:13 AM
Dec 20

In fact, fearless governance that includes killing the filibuster and expanding the court could give Dems the trifecta for a generation.

If Dems could ram through progressive bill after bill without being obstructed by the filibuster or having the new laws overturned by SCOTUS, tangibly improving the lives of all Americans, voters would reward them with landslide victories and republicans wouldn’t get an opportunity to counter-expand the court for decades (see FDR and the New Deal).

I personally favor expanding to 21 justices- the bigger the court, the less power and influence a single Justice can have, and it will make it much more difficult to have predictable ideological voting blocs on the court.

Cirsium

(3,374 posts)
5. Hear, hear
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 01:12 AM
Dec 20

"We cannot govern out of fear of what republicans might do."

That can't be said too may times.

Wanderlust988

(729 posts)
8. You're wanting to govern out of anger. You need to play the long view, not a short term sugar high
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 02:26 AM
Dec 20

That is what's wrong with so many in our party. They want to govern out of anger. It's not about what the Republicans might do. It's about building respect for the Court again. I actually don't want a Court that just rubber stamps EVERYTHING the Dems want. Our party can pass very extreme legislation. If you don't believe me, look at the bills coming out Sacramento that are even too extreme for Gavin to sign. He regularly vetoes crazy shit the Assembly passes. Our party can be just as extreme as the MAGA.

I don't want a Court to just go along with EVERY Dem law. That's what would happen if you have 4 or 9 justices. The country as a whole will not have faith that the Court is not political.

Fiendish Thingy

(22,061 posts)
12. You are completely wrong
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 10:32 AM
Dec 20

I want Dems to govern out of conviction and determination, without fear or hesitation, Like Whitmer did with a one seat majority in the state legislature. In one year they rammed through bill after bill- codifying Roe, raising minimum wage, protecting labor rights, voting rights, and so much more.

That can’t be done at the federal level unless the filibuster dies and the court is expanded.

Without court expansion, there can be no restoration of democracy, no repair of the damage of the Trump era. The only “long game” is waiting decades and hoping a conservative Justice dies while a Dem is president and has a Dem senate, meanwhile voters perceive Dems as feckless and unable to govern.

Your “long game” politics is akin to the “go slow” approach of Dixiecrats on civil rights, and is unacceptable, politically or morally.

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Celerity

(53,701 posts)
4. Your first two solutions would require a Constitutional Amendment. SCOTUS Expansion does not.
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 12:29 AM
Dec 20

Also, I want 6 seats added (so 15 total justices), not 4 (13 total justices). Or even 12 to 16 (16 as absolute MAX) added IF need be.

15 to even 25 total SCOTUS justices is manageable.

Beyond that is problematic.

I prefer 21 as the max total (to 25), but 15 total on SCOTUS would be close to ideal IMHO.

9 total is simply too small, as we are seeing now with the RW gaming that number over the years.

tinrobot

(11,954 posts)
27. I don't see anything explicitly stating lifetime terms
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 12:54 PM
Dec 20

Here's article 3 section 1 :

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.


All it says is they hold offices "during good behaviour" there's nothing about lifetime terms. Congress could conceivably legislate terms.

Of course, anything enacted by Congress regarding term limits would be challenged in... you guessed it... the Supreme Court.

We can only assume how that would turn out.


Celerity

(53,701 posts)
33. Article III states that these judges "hold their office during good behavior," which means they have a lifetime
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 01:44 PM
Dec 20
appointment, except under very limited circumstances. Article III judges can be removed from office only through impeachment by the House of Representatives and conviction by the Senate.

https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/types-federal-judges


The language about “holding offices during good behaviour” has been interpreted to mean that the only way federal judges can be removed from office is if the House of Representatives impeaches them, and the Senate convicts them, of “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” Only fifteen judges have ever been impeached (that is, formally accused by the House of Representatives) and only eight have been convicted and removed from office. For practical purposes, any judge who does not commit a crime (or do something equally bad) has “lifetime tenure” and will stay in office until he or she dies or voluntarily steps down. And, as the provision says, Congress and the President cannot retaliate against judges by cutting their salaries.

https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/article-iii/clauses/45#article-iii-section-one-by-richard-garnett-and-david-strauss


The Rationale Behind Lifetime Appointments

Although the Constitution does not explicitly mandate permanent tenure, the interpretation that its language implies life tenure is far from a new perspective. Alexander Hamilton, during the drafting era, championed lifetime tenure as essential for judicial independence, arguing that the judiciary’s lack of military or financial power made it the least threatening branch. Although Thomas Jefferson later changed his stance, the Federalists continued to support life tenure to safeguard judicial independence. Despite critics’ doubts about whether life tenure truly enhances judicial independence, the prevailing rationale today is that this system “insulates [federal judges] from the temporary passions of the public, and allows them to apply the law with only justice in mind, and not electoral or political concerns.”

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/legal-ethics-journal/blog/lifetime-appointments-of-federal-judges-a-double-edged-sword/


BTW, I am fully on board with term limits, but alas a Constitutional Amendment that puts them in place will never pass, or at least not for decades from now, IMHO.

in2herbs

(4,242 posts)
31. While the USSC is being revamped the justices should be split up and required to live and reside in the circuit they are
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 01:40 PM
Dec 20

assigned to. They can conduct hearings and everything else via zoom, etc. Justices should also be assigned cases they have proven experience in.

Cirsium

(3,374 posts)
6. 100 justices
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 01:18 AM
Dec 20

100 justices on the court would not be bad for the long term future of our democracy. Why would it be? The population is 10 times larger than it was when the number of Supreme Court justices was set at 9.

in2herbs

(4,242 posts)
32. Not if the justices were required to live and reside in the circuit they have been assigned.
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 01:42 PM
Dec 20

travelingthrulife

(4,463 posts)
15. I agree. Far more judges and rotate the benches they sit on so they cannot
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 10:37 AM
Dec 20

form political alliances as they have been doing.

Polybius

(21,517 posts)
10. "some of the justices are assigned randomly and term limits"
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 08:40 AM
Dec 20

That would require a constitutional amendment though, especially the latter.

travelingthrulife

(4,463 posts)
16. So what? The Constitution was designed as a living document. We won't survive another court
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 10:39 AM
Dec 20

like this. The only thing that has saved us so far is their incompetence.

ITAL

(1,267 posts)
17. Well, a Amendment like that won't pass any time soon for one
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 10:50 AM
Dec 20

Given you need a two thirds majority in each chamber AND three quarters of states to approve. I could maybe squint and see one chamber of Congress getting that kind of majority, but not both. And certainly not approval in 38 states.

Polybius

(21,517 posts)
34. I'm just saying that it's not an easy process
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 01:54 PM
Dec 20

2/3rds majority in Congress and 3/ths the states.

Thunder Chicken

(8 posts)
18. This actually makes me quite nervous
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 11:04 AM
Dec 20

What if the Republicans voted to expand the court to thirteen justices right now while they control the House and the Senate and Trump is in power? Would Trump then get to immediately nominate 4 additional justices? How would that even work?

Fiendish Thingy

(22,061 posts)
19. Republicans would have to kill the filibuster to expand the court
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 11:32 AM
Dec 20

Just as Dems would.

The difference is, Dems would expand the court to prevent laws that restore rights and benefit working Americans from being overturned, and republicans would expand the court to remove rights and damage democracy.

Voters would notice the difference,

travelingthrulife

(4,463 posts)
14. We should add 20-30 judges or more. Our population has grown, why not the USSC?
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 10:36 AM
Dec 20

Set them up in 9 judge courtrooms but rotate them regularly so forming political alliances are more difficult.
Make them term limited.
Restrict the hell out of their grifting with real penalties for infractions.

It isn't too hard if we have the political will.

RoseTrellis

(113 posts)
20. Can't be an arms race..
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 11:37 AM
Dec 20

How would you feel if the orange anus announced tomorrow that the repute’s were going to add 20-30 judges. Ow because the population has grown as you suggest?

Renew Deal

(84,709 posts)
22. Overall, I think it's a bad idea
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 11:55 AM
Dec 20

And probably the worst of the reform ideas because it’s not actually reform. It makes big problems bigger without solving any of the actual problems.

Democrats take it to 12. Republicans take it to 15. Democrats take it to 18.

We would probably be better off with a smaller court and reducing it to 7.

If people want real change, time limit the appointment, enforce a code of conduct and ethics, require more disclosure.

Fiendish Thingy

(22,061 posts)
24. The more the merrier
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 12:26 PM
Dec 20

A larger court means each justice has less power and influence, and makes more difficult to form predictable voting blocs.

What people don’t realize is, if Dems expand the court, and govern fearlessly and unhesitatingly , voters won’t give republicans the trifecta for decades (see FDR and the New Deal), by which time Dem laws and programs will be untouchable third rails.

Seeking Serenity

(3,279 posts)
23. Jamelle lacks imagination
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 12:04 PM
Dec 20

His video should be on how Democrats must insure that Republicans can never again hold power 🔋 in perpetuality. That's been the Party's biggest mistake over the past 25 years.

Mysterian

(6,177 posts)
36. Reversing the criminal Citizens United decision is imperative
Sat Dec 20, 2025, 07:17 PM
Dec 20

Only a completely corrupt justice would rule that money equals speech.

So pack the fucking court and drive on.

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