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PCIntern

(27,979 posts)
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 02:04 PM Dec 19

I treated a judge for forty years who had fronto-temporal dementia.

He lived into his late 90’s and was an extremely well-respected and politically powerful judge and then Senior Judge in Philadelphia Common Pleas Court. I am not speaking “out of school“, he is deceased and his entire first-degree family is as well with the exception of one estranged daughter who woukd welcome the exposition of her progressively insane father.

In the early 1980s he was referred to me for dental treatment. He had apparently “fired” his previous dentist and was looking for a new one. He had moderate dental issues at that time, but was aggressively refusing treatment by his Periodontist and was very angry that he had been diagnosed with any chronic deteriorating condition at all. He was a large, powerful man, who spoke in absolutes, and whose mood could change on a dime. I cannot tell you how many times we would be having a civil discussion, I would make some offhand comment about something fairly innocuous, and he would absolutely go, for want of a better word, bullshit. It would take me many minutes to calm him down after I had apparently straightened out my comment to him, if I could even do that.

As he got older, of course, since he had refused treatment, his dental condition deteriorated dramatically, and it was a cyclical thing because he became angrier and angrier, and was ultimately blaming me or his previous dentist. Now before I go further, I want to answer those people who are saying that I should just have dismissed him from my practice. This was impossible. This was not going to happen. If he left me, that would be his decision and that would’ve been fine, but he had this very peculiar allegiance to me, almost the way an abusive parent “loves“ his or her children.

Anything and everything became very big deal and his fuse was shorter than ever. An hour with him, felt like one of those fever dreams that you have when you’re sick and you’re just pissing into the wind, trying to make sense of things. In addition to his dental issues, he would make inappropriate comments to the female staff, which were provocative to say the least, but they actually took it rather well because they were afraid of him too and too naive to under stand their meanings. I was made to understand that when he would go for a haircut at his salon, he would disrobe from the waist up, which I am certain was not a pretty sight. The owner had made a mistake of asking him not to do that and all hell rained down upon him. The judge actually threatened to exercise his powers, call the police and have the owner detained and held by the sheriff at the judges discretion. Believe it or not this is sort of legal in Philadelphia. Don’t ask …

He was fairly well to do and would play financial games with his children, his ex-wife, and his present wife, and everybody was on tenterhooks, trying to stay on his good side. He would bark at anyone, whether it be in a restaurant, in a concert hall, in a taxi cab, or just on the street. He was really a frightening individual and wheeled a great deal of influence and power, and there was nothing anybody could say or do to get through to him.

Finally, in his mid 90s, he needed to be committed to a assisted-living facility and according to his daughter, began assaulting, sexually, the employees there, including, but not limited to, the men. At the request of his wife, I went to see him just before he passed away to adjust his denture, and he was totally completely out of control and had a look of rage behind his eyes, which, even at his worst, I had never seen before.

If someone told me that the staff did him in, it would not surprise me in the least.

The point of me posting this is that I spent probably 25 years of my practice, living in low-grade fear that I would receive a phone call from him, often at home with demands which were extremely difficult to satisfy and waiting for the blowback following. To be Frank, one of the reasons I sold my practice what I did was that I had collected a number of very difficult people and just wanted to get away because escape was crucial to my survival. I can only imagine what it must be like to deal with this guy living in the White House, who was never close to normal. Quite frankly, I cannot recall a literary villain possessing this amount of rage coupled with all the other disorders which he manifest and has manifested his entire life. The judge, by comparison, would be considered benign.

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I treated a judge for forty years who had fronto-temporal dementia. (Original Post) PCIntern Dec 19 OP
OK, some enterprising reporter needs to track down all of Trmp's former dentists and interview them at length. nt eppur_se_muova Dec 19 #1
Wow. You are a saint in order to deal w/ people like this & I wave my hat off to you in honor of your patience... SWBTATTReg Dec 19 #2
It is sad, but we as a society have to do better at finding solutions to those who become progressively more violent hlthe2b Dec 19 #3
One could see this coming after the way Reagan and society, in general, slightlv Dec 19 #12
Thanks for validating the turn dementia can take bucolic_frolic Dec 19 #4
I wonder why Nasruddin Dec 19 #8
It's not only anger that could cause the rage at losing one's faculties... slightlv Dec 19 #13
With Trump, it feels like his negative traits PatSeg Dec 19 #15
Narcissists tend to get worse as they age. By then all of their normal friends and family have left them. OMGWTF Dec 19 #18
Yes, that has been my experience for the most part PatSeg Dec 19 #20
Thanks for this canetoad Dec 19 #5
You truly are a great healer, Doctor. Kid Berwyn Dec 19 #6
dang. barbtries Dec 19 #7
I like your slow work-up to the ending. I thought I could hear the "Jaws" melody underneat. erronis Dec 19 #9
You were an angel to have kept his periodontal health in check, lest his dementia would have escalated. John1956PA Dec 19 #10
According to my psychologist, my father cksmithy Dec 19 #11
This, along with Amaryll's thread Tbear Dec 19 #14
Lived to his late 90s? Ugh! WestMichRad Dec 19 #16
I will leave it to you to ask a judge PCIntern Dec 19 #22
LOL! WestMichRad Dec 19 #23
Recommended. H2O Man Dec 19 #17
I wonder if any anti-anxiety drugs were administered to the out of control judge. SleeplessinSoCal Dec 19 #19
My mother seems to be going through the early stages of this - with angry reactions to most any irritation. ihaveaquestion Dec 19 #21
A difficult situation. Good she's not living with you. Joinfortmill Dec 19 #24
K&R spanone Dec 19 #25

eppur_se_muova

(41,009 posts)
1. OK, some enterprising reporter needs to track down all of Trmp's former dentists and interview them at length. nt
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 02:11 PM
Dec 19

SWBTATTReg

(26,057 posts)
2. Wow. You are a saint in order to deal w/ people like this & I wave my hat off to you in honor of your patience...
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 02:13 PM
Dec 19

Some people, as I have learned in my 70+ years on earth, have an unique gift to handle people, a gift that truly few have.

Kudos to you...

hlthe2b

(112,839 posts)
3. It is sad, but we as a society have to do better at finding solutions to those who become progressively more violent
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 02:15 PM
Dec 19

with this and other forms of dementia. With Medicaid cuts fewer and fewer can be placed in appropriate long term care facilities (assuming any are staffed with trained people to handle them--dementia care centers not unexpectedly cater to the highly insured or wealthy patients). So these combined problems mean some of them may end up becoming violent with spouse or other family or homeless and violent on the street.

There is likewise a wrong assumption--especially prevalent among family members--that these patients can be medicated successfully to prevent the progressive lack of control and violence that IN SOME manifests. Well, maybe. But not always especially with structural progressive brain disease like FTD.

Our society is rapidly becoming a failed one for our people and communities. Can it be turned around? Maybe.

slightlv

(7,438 posts)
12. One could see this coming after the way Reagan and society, in general,
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 03:59 PM
Dec 19

treated mentally unwell individuals in the 1980's, and then too, those afflicted with AIDS in the early days. This country has decided society has a certain "look" and "behavior" and any step outside the bounds of those constraints needs to be put down hard. We're just now getting to the crux of the Baby Boomers all turning elderly and being hit by chronic diseases, in addition to various forms of dementia. We're not ready to cope with this because it's "against our religion" to deal with it. The GOP model is to either shove these people so far into a hole so as to forget they exist, or kill them outright through lack of appropriate medical care. Far from being the shining beacon on the hill, this country is hard... in the way a person addicted to drugs and violence all his life is hard... There is no mercy, no compassion, no caring. In fact, those very words are violence to the maga and gop. It won't stop until we come up with a replacement for laissez faire capitalism, because at it's root it's the issue with every problem we have in the United States. People exist to be exploited. If they can't be exploited, they're "useless eaters" and need to be put down. We can't have decent healthcare because the insurance companies and their shareholders have control of it all for fun and profit... for themselves. Women can't have a decent career without worrying about childcare, or the male idiot down the hall taking credit for all her ideas.

The entire country... and government... has to be completely reimagined and reworked. We have a chance to get it right, but it'll be so hard to accomplish that taking the easy way on some things will be the default mode, I'm afraid. If we do that, we can guarantee we'll be here again in 20-30 years. We HAVE to do the hard work. I'm almost 70, have voted in every election and voted as a Democrat in each of those elections. But I have to wonder, does the democratic party have the stamina to start AND finish the hard work that's ahead of us?

bucolic_frolic

(54,073 posts)
4. Thanks for validating the turn dementia can take
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 02:24 PM
Dec 19

I posted a couple months ago that it could involve rage, because I heard about it from reliable sources, but it was met with skepticism.

Nasruddin

(1,178 posts)
8. I wonder why
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 03:51 PM
Dec 19

Rage is common. It sort of makes sense - if you were losing control of your faculties and you had some self awareness, wouldn't you be angry about it? I suppose it might liberate angry impulses that otherwise your mental faculty would have checked.

slightlv

(7,438 posts)
13. It's not only anger that could cause the rage at losing one's faculties...
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 04:02 PM
Dec 19

but also frustration from losing the smallest of things - a word that's on the tip of your tongue you can't bring forth. A face you recognize from decades of affiliation but can no longer name. Plus, with the emphasis on anger, violence, and general GOP traits being foremost in enlarged amygdalas... does the amygdala undergo changes during the progression of dementia? That could also explain quite a bit.

PatSeg

(52,218 posts)
15. With Trump, it feels like his negative traits
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 04:08 PM
Dec 19

are being magnified as he gets older. Perhaps he is becoming more and more the person he is inside.

OMGWTF

(5,016 posts)
18. Narcissists tend to get worse as they age. By then all of their normal friends and family have left them.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 04:20 PM
Dec 19

Kid Berwyn

(23,013 posts)
6. You truly are a great healer, Doctor.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 02:41 PM
Dec 19

"...If he left me, that would be his decision and that would’ve been fine, but he had this very peculiar allegiance to me, almost the way an abusive parent 'loves' his or her children."

And that is my definition of a great healer -- one who does whatever is needed to help heal, no questions asked.

barbtries

(31,139 posts)
7. dang.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 03:36 PM
Dec 19

I won't question your decisions regarding your patients. Hope you got battle pay; you earned it. On the other hand, you had to deal with him for a few hours a few times a year (speculating), whereas his family and caregivers had virtually no time off. kinda tragic.

I'm selfish: the worst thing for me about this post is that this man lived to over 90 years old. if krasnov does that there is not a chance that i'll ever be dancing on his grave.

erronis

(22,689 posts)
9. I like your slow work-up to the ending. I thought I could hear the "Jaws" melody underneat.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 03:51 PM
Dec 19

FTD (if that is what it was) takes many forms. Combine that with power and it can be a disaster. Just like is being inflicted on the US (and the world.)

John1956PA

(4,839 posts)
10. You were an angel to have kept his periodontal health in check, lest his dementia would have escalated.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 03:55 PM
Dec 19

cksmithy

(426 posts)
11. According to my psychologist, my father
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 03:55 PM
Dec 19

was clinically paranoid, narcissistic and thought he could never do anything wrong. He was a terrible man, but he held onto his marbles, knew things, could have a coherent conversation, if he agreed with it, like the weather, etc. It was his health, congestive heart failure, that got him. He didn't smoke, didn't drink, but was a rage alcoholic, a dry drunk. He was jumping up out of his chair, screaming if anyone disagreed with him. He made it to 80 years old. I don't believe he is happy because there is no way he is where he thought he was going.

We all put up with him, I mostly ignored him. He was not a judge, or anybody of importance. In fact his church thought he was closer to god he was, the crazier he got. (I do not understand that, but know it happens.)

I worry that the crazier trump acts, the closer to god the nationalist church thinks ,he is the chosen one.

Tbear

(666 posts)
14. This, along with Amaryll's thread
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 04:03 PM
Dec 19

“ DAMMIT It's Not Alzheimer's! Here's Why It's A Far Worse Nightmare Scenario. This explains a lot.”

together really connects some dots.

The confident confabulations and the rage/vindictiveness. How he is never, ever, wrong.

So this is the medical information they are trying to hide.

Wowser

WestMichRad

(2,938 posts)
16. Lived to his late 90s? Ugh!
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 04:16 PM
Dec 19

That’s a thoroughly depressing thought.

A well-meaning question, just seeking to understand: Is it possible for a professional providing a service to compel a client to sign a waiver that would protect the professional if the client rages-sues for some perceived slight? (“Sign if you want to continue receiving my services.”) Would something like that have any hope of being upheld in court?

H2O Man

(78,650 posts)
17. Recommended.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 04:19 PM
Dec 19

One of my neighbors is in the medical field. I visited them one summer day, not too many years ago. She and her husband were great people. He seemed to be doing well, and enjoying retirement.

Within a few months FTD had taken a toll. She told me that one day when she returned from a trip to the store, he did not recognize her, and was threatening. Thus he ended up in a nursing home, and died shortly thereafter.

It seems to be happening to more and more people these days. I've talked to my neighbor about it. She said her husband's case was particularly rapid in the decline. There appear to be both genetic and environmental factors involved in the increase of adults getting this at younger ages than previously.

SleeplessinSoCal

(10,371 posts)
19. I wonder if any anti-anxiety drugs were administered to the out of control judge.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 04:27 PM
Dec 19

Buspar was a miracle worker for a family dynamic we all went through. Nothing as bad as this individual. Seems power mania is becoming an epidemic.

Buspar for all!

https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/buspirone-oral-route/description/drg-20062457

ihaveaquestion

(4,413 posts)
21. My mother seems to be going through the early stages of this - with angry reactions to most any irritation.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 04:41 PM
Dec 19

She is 89 and we have never had a close relationship. It's worse now, with her living in a place she dislikes, even though it's the most well appointed independent living facility in our area. She is full of anger at living there and though she made the decision, it feels as though she blames me. She doesn't listen to any explanation I give her for anything unless it's confirmed by someone else and argues with me about most things. I've taken to avoiding contact with her unless absolutely necessary.

It's sad really, but probably expected. Looking back at our lives, it's apparent that she's always been a narcissist and looking to be dependent on others for everything. She even told me years ago that she "just wanted to be taken care of" ... by a man at that point, but now she expects me to do everything for her and to do it her way, of course. I'm 70 now and am not prepared for this caregiving role.

I don't think this will end well for us. I've told my husband and daughter to tell me if I start to go down the same path of anger and being difficult to deal with.

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