Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

bluesbassman

(19,998 posts)
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 10:05 AM Saturday

So DEI is out, and "Meritocracy" is in. Why?

Merit has always been a factor in our lives and society. Starting when we’re young, you do your homework and pass your exams, you get a good grade. When we enter the workplace, you work hard and go the extra mile, you get a raise ir a promotion, etc. Simple enough concept, except it didn’t always work that smoothly in the real world. In the real world two people doing the same job are up for a promotion, one has a better track record but the other gets the promotion. The difference was the better candidate was a POC or a woman, but the promotion was given to the white man because “reasons”. Any of us that have been working in the real world for any length of time can remember when that was so common it wasn’t almost joked about. DEI policies came about in response to this very simplistic example, but there was much more. They were guardrails to ensure that everyone got a fair shake. The point is Trump knows that his white male base hates the fact that any POC or woman ever gets promoted or advances. They want the system back where THEY are only given preferential treatment. That’s what “meritocracy” means to MAGA, and Trump is going to do everything he can to give it to them. It’s the Boy’s Club dressed up in a fifty cent word.

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
So DEI is out, and "Meritocracy" is in. Why? (Original Post) bluesbassman Saturday OP
Meritocracy is for white males like Hegseth only uponit7771 Saturday #1
That's the example I'm thinking of. bluesbassman Saturday #3
The problem with Meritocracy is the subjectiveness in defining what the merit is. haele Saturday #12
They include their demented version of Christianity Ilsa Saturday #19
It will be White Legacy, not Meritocracy. sop Saturday #2
That's the ugly alternative to DEI. bluesbassman Saturday #4
Yeah, none of the Cabinet members so far biophile Saturday #5
Not to mention, it's positively absurd for MAGA to speak of Mike 03 Saturday #6
They believe that white males have been discriminated against for too long. surfered Saturday #7
Yeah, they think any gains to level the playing field is "discrimination" against them. Quiet Em Saturday #8
Is a race "fair" if one side gets a 400 year head start? surfered Saturday #11
That isn't really it. These white men think they are owed valleyrogue Saturday #14
It's so blatant it can't be denied Quiet Em Saturday #9
Meritocracy - really? walkingman Saturday #10
"Merit" doesn't exist. White male affirmative action does. valleyrogue Saturday #13
What they mean by "Meritocracy" is that Bettie Saturday #15
MInorities suffer from poor schools, and women are discouraged from many fields. usonian Saturday #16
Many of the female-dominated jobs are actually the better jobs, but they are underpaid on purpose, valleyrogue Saturday #17
Yes, but I deliberately said fields, not just jobs. usonian Saturday #23
DEI is meritocracy. It stands in opposition to wnylib Saturday #18
So-called "Meritocracy" is part of the basis Ilsa Saturday #20
I wouldn't even while disputing it, use the word meirtocracy karynnj Saturday #21
I'm firmly opposed to DEI in government Danascot Saturday #22

haele

(13,783 posts)
12. The problem with Meritocracy is the subjectiveness in defining what the merit is.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:02 AM
Saturday

If Merit for a position in management is defined on how much you prefer to kiss ass instead of how competent you are in running a business, or on how you look and sound rather than how qualified you actually are when applying for a position that requires quantifiable, recorded talent, knowledge and experiance, then you aren't going to be the best qualified person that will actually get work done or can handle change and emergencies.

Sorry for the long paragraph, but the amount and type of qualifications for leadership in large, complex organizations is not the same qualification for leadership to get an immediate task done.
And honestly, just being a "pretty face" and sucking up to ideology or money is only a qualification to either be attractive enough to provide entertainment, sell worthless crap or be accepted into a particular ideological club to get money.

I find that in the above situation, providing entertainment to the most honest way to get ahead; one does need to exhibit a certain amount of native talent entertaining others and in most cases, one is doing less harm to society in general.

On edit - it is clear that Merit as defined by Prosperity Gospel Christianity and the Heritage Foundation types is defined by how much wealth you or your family have acquired and if you appear to have the right "genes".
Merit in MAGA has nothing to do with talent, knowledge, ethics, or positive personal characteristics.

Ilsa

(62,418 posts)
19. They include their demented version of Christianity
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:00 PM
Saturday

in adding up "merit" as well.

sop

(12,183 posts)
2. It will be White Legacy, not Meritocracy.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 10:14 AM
Saturday

How else would the unmeritorious offspring of white America take their rightful place among the unmeritocratic elite?

Mike 03

(17,930 posts)
6. Not to mention, it's positively absurd for MAGA to speak of
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 10:23 AM
Saturday

meritocracy when, in practice, the whole structure of the cult is to give favor to people who demonstrate unquestioned loyalty. The net result is the exact opposite of a meritocracy; it's a kakistocracy. One of the saddest consequences of this week's actions is that tens of thousands of experts and career servants with YEARS of education and training will now be replaced by the types we see at MAGA rallies who filled out an online job application that Stephen Miller is probably sorting through now. Climate scientists can now be replaced by your average Fox News viewer.

Quiet Em

(1,464 posts)
8. Yeah, they think any gains to level the playing field is "discrimination" against them.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 10:37 AM
Saturday

It's pathetic and absurd.

valleyrogue

(1,362 posts)
14. That isn't really it. These white men think they are owed
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:29 AM
Saturday

all the "best" jobs, which tended to be overpaid to begin with because of the concept of the "family wage," designed to kick women out of the labor force. It is all about white male entitlement.

They can't stand it there is competition now, and women aren't going back.

walkingman

(8,749 posts)
10. Meritocracy - really?
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 10:45 AM
Saturday

Meritocracy doesn’t work when some people benefit from the system disproportionately. The idea that equal opportunity, self-determination, and post-racism is a noble idea, but it is not reality.

IMO, it simply cannot be right that a country as affluent and wealthy as ours leaves so many hopelessly behind, without any real opportunity to succeed. To play like we will all succeed if we just put forth the effort is simply not true, and to accept it seems cold-hearted, mean-spirited. Our country should be at the very least embarrassed that we have allowed this to happen over time.

The wealthy and powerful have created almost all of this because the public has supported the idea each of us can determine our on destiny. It simply is not true.

Meritocracy causes people to blame themselves for outcomes when in reality the system is almost guaranteeing our inequality.

valleyrogue

(1,362 posts)
13. "Merit" doesn't exist. White male affirmative action does.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:27 AM
Saturday

Anything that benefits the white dudes, including veterans preference, which IS a form of affirmative action, is okay, but anything that helps everybody else, especially women, is "bad."

Nepotism has always been huge in hiring and promotions, and these tend to help white dudes.

Bettie

(17,590 posts)
15. What they mean by "Meritocracy" is that
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:32 AM
Saturday

only white males of the 'correct' religion have merit.

Some women can be put in positions, sometimes, but they must be conventionally attractive and willing to perform sexual favors when they are demanded by the white males in charge.

It is indeed the boy's club....or rather the He Man Woman Haters Club.

usonian

(15,378 posts)
16. MInorities suffer from poor schools, and women are discouraged from many fields.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:37 AM
Saturday

Local school funding means de-facto segregation and better education for privileged whites.
When I attended private high school, there was one female in our math and science heavy classes.

White males fear the population trends, proving the fact of "privilege" for themselves.

valleyrogue

(1,362 posts)
17. Many of the female-dominated jobs are actually the better jobs, but they are underpaid on purpose,
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:52 AM
Saturday

while fields men dominate in tend to be overpaid on purpose thanks to the "family wage" concept. It is all designed to buttress the marriage system and by extension patriarchy by forcing women to partner with men in order to get financial support while men get sexual access to women. It has always been that way, but "experts" are somehow skittish to tell the truth about it.

It is so obvious what undergirds sex-segregation in the workforce, but the suggestion often given women need to go into the mostly shitty "men's" jobs is shortsighted. That is because when women dominate a previously male-dominated field, the pay and "prestige" always goes down. ALWAYS.

Male "sex-right" has to be preserved at all costs, and the easiest way to keep it is to starve women financially to force dependence on men.

usonian

(15,378 posts)
23. Yes, but I deliberately said fields, not just jobs.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:13 PM
Saturday

Being a techie, it was insanely obvious, and I suppose that there other entire fields.

Not just subtle pressure but vicious and hateful derision, as in President of the U.S.

The scientific and technical achievements of women are awesome, but those who did were pioneers in hostile territory.

Not to disagree, but to extend the metaphor beyond just crappy jobs.

wnylib

(25,183 posts)
18. DEI is meritocracy. It stands in opposition to
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:53 AM
Saturday

cronyism, nepotism, and legacy hiring and promoting. DEI is basic American values.

E pluribus unum is the US motto. "From many, one." Or, "one from many."

Equity is equality for everyone.

Inclusion is liberty and justice for ALL, not just for some.



Ilsa

(62,418 posts)
20. So-called "Meritocracy" is part of the basis
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:05 PM
Saturday

for the rich getting tax breaks. A progressive tax structure doesn't reward the successful, in their eyes.

karynnj

(60,075 posts)
21. I wouldn't even while disputing it, use the word meirtocracy
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:07 PM
Saturday

Meritocracy is and always has been rare. Trump's picks are not based on any kind of merit, but rather a mix of thinking they will be 100 percent loyal to him and that they will be hated by us. This is worse than even the worse of the "old boy's club" many of us saw.

Then, a boss, almost always white and make, often without even thinking about it favored someone who seemed to be a young version of how they saw themself. Hard working, capable, smart etc. Needless to say, that favored candidate was unlikely to be POC or female. This was the soft side of systemic racism and sexism which were less obvious. In many cases, both the bosses and the employee could be "nice" and respected in their community. This was why, as you said, programs to counter this are needed.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»So DEI is out, and "Merit...