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Stardust Mirror

(637 posts)
Thu Jan 16, 2025, 04:43 PM 15 hrs ago

Mind reader that I am, I'm thinking that right wingers..

I'm posting this in hopes of getting feedback from sharper minds than my own.
(Warning: excessive use of quotation marks and parentheses and possible abuse of the Oxford comma)

I'm thinking that right wingers wrongly conflate authoritarianism with communism. In my admittedly limited understanding, communism is government controlling the economy, socialism is the workers controlling the economy, and capitalism is "owners" controlling the economy. (I don't know how to label worker owned/run companies like the Mondragon Corporation.)

I don't think right wingers understand those definitions/differences. I posit that when they complain about 'communism' they are not talking about the economy at all. What they're complaining about is people telling them what to do. In other words, having to obey laws and, especially, regulations. You can't regulate gun ownership! You can't tell me how to build my house! You can't tax me, ie., steal my money! You can't tell me I can't graze my cattle on public land! Of course it's obvious to us that they are hypocrites, happy to dictate what others can and can't do.

Let's talk about being made to do something. Seems like two ways that happens, by force or by consent. Consent in this context being people in a society agreeing for their own mutual benefit, to contribute resources for needed common services, and to abide by regulations crafted to keep everyone safe (you could say "promote the general welfare&quot . I would add cheating and propaganda to my definition of "force", since it is a way to make people do things non-consensually.

I posit that right wingers don't consent to a social contract. Not only do they not accept consent, they do believe in and use force, ie., violence, to impose their wills on others. I would even speculate that many of them believe that violence is the only way to get people to do things. Looking at our country's history, the settlers genocided the occupants they encountered, to steal land. The stole and enslaved people, with mind-bendingly sadistic cruelty, to be the construction 'workers' to build their homes, businesses and government buildings, to do all the work to create/maintain a cash crop economy (tobacco, indigo, cotton, sugar) and exploited immigrants, using force and law, to build railroads and other infrastructure.

When the abolition of slavery in Britain threatened the entire farming, shipping and banking economy that the colonists depended on, they used violence to preserve slavery, by creating the United States. When again the abolition of slavery was looming, the used violence/force and started the Civil War.

When the veterans who served in WWI camped out in DC demanding the pay they'd been promised, they were gunned down. When laborers whispered the word "union" they were gunned down. Jim Crow was enforced by lynching and legal enforced servitude. When school integration was attempted the response, from the Deep South to Boston, was violence.

Most people would agree that violence is morally acceptable in self defense. And that self defense includes defending one's family. And home. And farm? And business? And pickup truck? But those aren't questions I care to spend time on now. I want to focus on the the question to what extent is it ok to "self-defend" one's "lifestyle" or "culture" or "heritage" or, to cut to the chase, one's self-identity as a superior "white" person ("white" being only a social construct). My inclination would be towards as narrow as possible as to what can be morally considered ok using violence to defend.

My point is right wingers don't believe in democracy: it's their way or violence. If a person doesn't agree with them they don't get a voice.

OK, I'm ready to be enlightened. Thanks in advance.

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Mind reader that I am, I'm thinking that right wingers.. (Original Post) Stardust Mirror 15 hrs ago OP
Your light is on BoRaGard 15 hrs ago #1
Don't know if you can go to gab13by13 15 hrs ago #2
thanks for that pointer Stardust Mirror 15 hrs ago #3
Racism is mother's milk Keepthesoulalive 15 hrs ago #4
Huh? You're way off base. Wiz Imp 14 hrs ago #5
I agree. Quite hypocritical. Stardust Mirror 14 hrs ago #6
I agree that part of the reason they love authoritarianism is they think they'll be part of the ruling party. Wiz Imp 12 hrs ago #9
exactly Blue_Tires 13 hrs ago #7
Many people in our society have the incorrect attitude of "You'd better agree with me or you're my enemy" Clouds Passing 13 hrs ago #8

gab13by13

(25,671 posts)
2. Don't know if you can go to
Thu Jan 16, 2025, 04:59 PM
15 hrs ago

Freespeechtv.org. Thom Hartmann’s 1st segment today explained how the Roman Empire and the US democracy’s fall, mirrored one another.
The US is an oligarchy right now. Rich people in Rome and the US wanted more money and power and democracy was standing in the way. Rich people convinced ordinary people that government was the problem. Rich people put people in power who caused stagnation, who corrupted government. The rich people convinced the ordinary people that they needed a strong man, that only a strong man can fix their problems. Caesar came across the Rubicon, Trump came across the Rubicon.
Now, Thom said that oligarchies are not permanent they are transitional. So when the time comes ordinary people will have 2 choices, throw the billionaires out or become a country like Russia or Hungary.
Probably can go to Thom’s episode today and replay it.

Stardust Mirror

(637 posts)
3. thanks for that pointer
Thu Jan 16, 2025, 05:06 PM
15 hrs ago

I'll check that out.

I'm a little way into this book, may have a similar premise:

https://thenewpress.com/books/assassination-of-julius-caesar

"Most historians, both ancient and modern, have viewed the Late Republic of Rome through the eyes of its rich nobility. In The Assassination of Julius Caesar, Michael Parenti presents us with a story of popular resistance against entrenched power and wealth. As he carefully weighs the evidence concerning the murder of Caesar, Parenti sketches in the background to the crime with fascinating detail about wider Roman society. In these pages we find reflections on the democratic struggle waged by Roman commoners, religious augury as an instrument of social control, the patriarchal oppression of women, and the political use of homophobic attacks. The Assassination of Julius Caesar offers a whole new perspective on an era we thought we knew well."

Keepthesoulalive

(872 posts)
4. Racism is mother's milk
Thu Jan 16, 2025, 05:33 PM
15 hrs ago

How do you convince thousands of men who can’t vote to fight a war for rich plantation owners.
They were not allowed in the same churches but they fought for a bunch of selfish oligarchs who would not even send supplies. Now it’s something about heritage which they know nothing about.

Wiz Imp

(2,683 posts)
5. Huh? You're way off base.
Thu Jan 16, 2025, 05:41 PM
14 hrs ago

Republicans love authoritarianism. Trump is the most authoritarian leader in the history of the country. Trump loves all the authoritarian dictators around the world like Putin, Orban, Erdogan, etc. If they conflated authoritarianism with communism, then they'd absolutely love communism.

Stardust Mirror

(637 posts)
6. I agree. Quite hypocritical.
Thu Jan 16, 2025, 06:10 PM
14 hrs ago

I'm sorry if I didn't make that point enough in my original post.

They love authoritarianism but only if they think they'll be part of the ruling "party".

Wiz Imp

(2,683 posts)
9. I agree that part of the reason they love authoritarianism is they think they'll be part of the ruling party.
Thu Jan 16, 2025, 07:53 PM
12 hrs ago

I still disagree that they conflate communism with it. Ask 99% of people on the right to define communism and they can't do it. They have no idea what communism is. Many even equate the Nazis with communists. For the right, communism is simply a catch-all word at this point to describe anything they disagree with. It's why they continually equate communism with socialism and with fascism, etc. as if they are all the same thing. Of course they are all VERY different. To the right, communism has become a simple word to use as a bogeyman to criticize the left (despite them having no idea what the word actually means).

Clouds Passing

(3,174 posts)
8. Many people in our society have the incorrect attitude of "You'd better agree with me or you're my enemy"
Thu Jan 16, 2025, 07:34 PM
13 hrs ago
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