Especially of the Opus Dei, "bring back the Latin Mass" types like Alito and Mel Gibson.

There are literally hundreds of religions on this planet. Less than 1/3 of the global population is Christian. Christianity is a minority religion, as are all other religions. It's odd that some claim only one religion is proper. Disturbing even, given the First Amendment of the US Constitution.

Things may be changing soon.

And therein begets the trouble.

=================

But they don't go around screaming so they get lost.

The Dalai Lama was once asked what he thought of all the Westerners who were becoming Buddhists. He didn't seem to mind, but he said something like, "Go to the religion you grew up with, where you live, and bring the practice of compassion to it. If you're a Presbyterian, be a compassionate Presbyterian." Etc. I loved that. Need to find the video.

And p.s. no one needs religion to have compassion. Just sayin'.

Should have re-read the comments first! So true!

This Latin mass bullshit gets my goat, speaking as a former Catholic. In my opinion, one of the best things the Roman Catholic church did was to publish the bible in modern English and use that in mass. I guess having mass said in the common tongue is not manly or holy enough for these fucks that are anything but Christ-like.

Even if I assume that there is a God who created me, at most I should be grateful for my life and for the lives of the people I care for and for those who make life better for others. Why would a omni-powerful entity need my worship? Do they lack in self-worth? Do they think we don't sufficiently admire their greatness? What's the deal?

Woops- didn't mean to reply to my own reply- meant to respond to the OP.

Yes, they believe in a supernatural being that is all knowing, but they also believe in a supernatural being that is evil. It is the second one that gets ALL the blame for everything wrong in their lives. Without that being, they would be stuck blaming themselves. THAT, just would not do.

I've known a lot of Catholics since moving to this town decades ago. I long ago grew used to hearing Catholics talk about the lowly Baptists and how "backwards" they all are. My favorite moment was when a Catholic pronounced all Baptists as narrow-minded. I got them to repeat their judgment two more times and they never realized they were practicing the very thing they were accusing others of doing.

But the funniest part of all of it is that aside from the Catholics' attitudes about consuming alcohol, I don't see a dime's worth of difference between these Catholics and their Baptist nemeses. They all worship the same Bronze Age deity, all use the same foundational book. And they are all the same cultural conservatives. They dress the same, have the same pretensions, consume the same entertainment and pop culture ephemera. Most importantly, they are all on the same side of the culture wars, vote the same way on political issues and support the same candidates.

Their "differences" serve no other reason than to rationalize their superiority to themselves.

What super natural deity do I worship ???

As an atheist I'm dying to know.

Including the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Presuming that there feasibly is an eternal essence, it most certainly wouldn't be bound or restricted by mortal vanities like "religion".

Has religion as its cause, one way or another.

to use to DIVIDE us. Gotta say it's working for them very well. Never thought Americans would fall for this, but they did. It's the old saying GAWD said TFG is the chosen one and i hate to say it, but religious people are swallowing it hook line and sinker.

At some point i fully expect a religious litmus test

I don't worship imaginary entities that hate women.

I don't worship imaginary entities that provide zero proof that they ever existed, or exist now.

She accepted my atheism and loved me so I don’t give a fling fuck about fascists, racists or Christian Taliban operatives be they political or otherwise. The most they can do is kill me and then I wouldn’t have to deal with their undiluted effries.

that counts.

And Hello, Constantine.

Historically, he worshiped Sol Invictus to his dying day. Had his fortune told by the entrails of a bull regularly. The story of the Christ visitation and the sign on soldier shields etc. was made up by his historian Eusebius. It was all political. The fad of the time was monotheism and he needed a one god religion to solidify his power over the people. His mother came up with Christianity as an option. His real story is found chiseled in stone pillars as war memorials. The rest of the "Saint Constantine" story was manufactured by the church. Etc. etc ...

Just sayin'

Though it does sound interesting and I'll put it on my list to look up. I'm running to the history books for escape starting on 1/20.

But isn't he the one who started the Holy Roman Empire so he could have--as you said--solid power? Whether he was faking his own beliefs or not, that was my remote memory.

Googling now.

Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2025, 08:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Hello! Charlemagne!

I am resisting the impulse to remove my last post because I'm embarrassed that I remembered so incorrectly, but hey. My disc is full. It's been a long time since I learned this stuff. All the more reason to re-educate myself.

But, while I was poking around in the Google for it to all come back to me, it occurs to me that yes, Charlemagne is more the guy to look to now because of the Crusades. Several years ago I was a guest of a distant relative through marriage whose family is very conservatively Catholic (Latin mass etc.). Lovely people but lots of topics need to be avoided when there are weddings and funerals to attend. Anyway, I saw a book on a coffee table called something like, "The Crusades Aren't Over." I flipped through it and it was exactly what it said it was. Quite eye-opening.

To judge or not to judge that is the question

that a rapist and murderer could go to heaven as long as they believe in the same entity you do. You would prefer it, if a person who devoted their life to altruistic causes, not go to heaven because they don't believe as you do.

Then you wonder why people flee religion.

Religion is not part of my world view. I ignore it as irrelevant. Only where it impinges on my life do I pay any attention to it

I was born. I lived. I will die in due course. My life has affected others. That's enough for me.

That is true for everyone. Why would I be concerned? I leave that for others.

to me, but I will share a thought anyway.....
I am myself an "old man", but ever since I saw through the facade of "religion", I have no worries at all. I embrace and rejoice in the awareness of universal oneness with nature.

A pity. I was hoping to be a good influence.

I was really getting irritated!

in some plutocratic dystopia.



Promise?

Regardless of any external issues, I've about run my course. So...

I'm quite happy with the course of my life. I'm not a nihilist. I have affected many people in positive ways. What more could I ask?

I am a realist. Every one who is born will die. I'm lucky. I have had a long life. I have harmed nobody, and have helped some.

It's all good.

Those are real, as well. My world began at birth. It will end when I die. My influence will last a bit longer, but I won't exist to know that.

And so it goes. A few thousand generations. I'm going to get 80-something years. That's enough for me.

They will tell us how to behave in the new Christian theocracy.

Methodists are going to hell. You must have full immersion baptism, Catholics are papists and don’t get me started on what they think of seventh day Adventists and jehovah witnesses .
It is about power and money, I will be on the sidelines for this one.

if the worship of said entity isn't related to some human ruling structure. "Religious" wars haven't been about religious doctrine but about the power of a government that follows a particular religion, just as the current support of Trump by a significant number of evangelical Christians isn't doctrinal but political. In the last 40 years or so, and especially recently, the evangelicals have allied themselves with a political movement that supports their social issues, not their spiritual issues; that branch of Christianity, at least since the '70s or thereabouts, is infamously (and completely non-Scripturally) hung up on race, sex and gender roles. The evangelical movement has mostly southern roots, and once school integration became law they created private, segregated schools so their children wouldn't have to go to school with Black children. Although Jesus never said a word about homosexuality or racial segregation or abortion, these issues dominate the politics of evangelicals. Abortion was almost entirely a Catholic issue (evangelicals regarded Catholics as heretics, and vice-versa) until they found it politically expedient to join forces. Those issues are so important to that faction of American Christianity that somehow the fundamental principles of altruism and compassion emphasized by its founder are never mentioned at all. The only neighbors they love are their straight white ones who aren't poor or hungry or disabled or in prison. Matthew 25 seems to have been expunged from the New Testament as inconvenient for their political aspirations.

It's always been the case that the chosen god of the ruling class in any society is the one that is to be worshipped. Whether that worship is mandatory depends on how autocratic the ruling class happens to be.

It's just that we're going into a period of conflict in that area. We need, therefore, to be aware of that and consider it, I think.

Protestantism becoming the de facto national religion of the US.

We always took it for granted that the Constitution would protect us.

There are significant differences in the Christian New Testament between Orthodox, Catholic, and various Protestant sects.

And of course. what Moses said to the Jews is not what he said to the Christians

invisible deity of genesis 1. The Yahweh deity was the creator of the flawed, imperfect school of hard knocks, earth. The OT stories of Yahweh ordering genocides, killing children, spouting hate and anger, favoritism precluded Yahweh from being the source of souls, the creator of peace, kindness, love.

I tried to read the Koran to find some hidden symbology of a diety who prioritized the nature of the soul as giving mortals some guidance from a god of love and caring. I couldn't find anything other than the literal level and that was so full of violence, I gave up after reading only half.

Unfortunately, way too many alleged Christians behave as if their highest god were a Yahweh or Allah who accepts violent, intolerant thoughts and behavior.

There will be a "cleansing" of non-Catholic/Protestant religions in a way that resembles how Republicans have been "cleansed" into MAGA RINO's.

Evangelical and Fundamentalist churches are gearing up to attack mainstream Protestant denominations, such as Methodists (too liberal!), Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Lutherans, and Congregationalists. They will be denounced as "fake" Christians and will lose any political and societal clout that they've held for centuries.

When I was a student in Lynchburg, VA in 1979, it was well known to the community and the region that Jerry Falwell wanted to rule the world. Well, Jer's not here anymore but his dream of dominion (excuse the alliteration) may actually come to fore.

Do we all need to do an annual pilgrimage to Mar-a-Lardo?

'cause some "worship" is just plain wimpy.

(if you don't have snakes, brain worms will do)

"Or even a Christian, Muslim, Mormon, or Jew - all worshiping the same basic deity, ..."

I would suggest that mainstream Jewish doctrine does not dwell on the notion of heaven and hell (those things barely exist in the O.T.), and consequently are not obsessed with pleasing a deity in order to get a ticket into heaven or a "Get out of hell" card. My limited experience (all from a Reform point of view) suggests that the relationship of the Jew with the deity is more like that of a student than a subject or prisoner. In this particular congregation I am familiar with, they are not worshiping a deity as much as they are worshiping life and the world, and the opportunity to be part of that.

Personally, I would not call that worshiping. I'd call it appreciation and self-improvement. There is no sense of taking orders for fear of retribution from a thin-skinned idol. My time with this congregation is not unlike my experiences with several Unitarian congregations

What I'd like to write is "None of your fucking business."

I put humans above gods.

we aren't Calvinist or some such to qualify as good little Evangelistas. I know I'm not supposed to bear false witness but I certainly will if my self-preservation is at stake.

T****, the Orange Light of the World?

There are a lot of churches which have been corrupted into this, but its not really Protestantism that's to blame. Many of the Protestant churches are pretty liberal.

will get samurai weapons sticking out of their body.... FUCK OFF! Wtf, I will probably get picked up in the Deportation roundup, cause I don't look like
a real American.... sent to the gulags and shipped off to China.

That thing weighs about 30 lbs.

I am an atheist and if I believed in a god it could only be a Goddess.

Who is their preferred deity? Satan?

Of course, if you should meet the Buddha on the road you'd have to be drunk or crazy., The Buddha has been dead for around 2500 years. Which is the point of the saying.

You going to try again after you get banned again?

and it doesn't seem to work out for them over there either.

The greatest of all deities.

Fuck that shit; they can beat me up, jail me or kill me. I will not obey.

except for the ones that worship nature.

The rest are a cancer on the planet. I can’t believe even one “modern” person believes in these idiotic women-hating mythologies involving magical sky beings.

Which is part of the weirdness. The fundamentalist-type Roman Catholicism is also on board this time (Alito, Vance, et al). Strange bedfellows.

They would ALL want to be at the top. The mess that would follow, well, I would get myself a lot of popcorn. Irony, the New Testament implies that religion united with government becomes controlled by Satan.

Constatine had to deal with this mess which led to the Nicaean Council, where one ideology was formed and drifting from it was punishable by prison and or death. It's how we got the one universal Christian church before the great schism that created Catholic and Orthodox.

It would very ironic if this happened under the fundamentalist religions as they detest Catholics and Orthodox.

As a religious person myself, if looked like history was about to repeat itself, I would get the hell out of Dodge. I have relatives and friends in other countries, so I don't need to stay in a theocratic country. I always have an escape route, my wife's and my own families are well aware of how we got here and know the issues can manifest themselves here when you least expect it.

Under what circumstances, and what are the implied consequences depending on my answer?

Asking me which religion I prefer would be like asking me to choose which 6 foot tall rabbit in the room right now I prefer. I suppose I could get on board with an earth-based religion. I do believe earth exists, it provides for every living thing. But a magical, invisible, eternal deity with powers of creation, though seemingly indifferent to suffering? Nah, I don't think so.

That's how we roll.

I am, therefore, not a Real American. Oh well.