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senseandsensibility

(21,543 posts)
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 09:29 PM Jan 14

Just heard on Joy Reid

California contributes 83 billion more dollars to the federal govt. than they receive. In fact, Los Angeles County alone contributes more to the federal govt. than all but 4 other states combined.

Yet the welfare (red) states who take more than they contribute are trying to put conditions on aid to their benefactor, California! It's insane!

Good for Joy. Now the Dems need to start screaming about this.

52 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Just heard on Joy Reid (Original Post) senseandsensibility Jan 14 OP
Wow, that really puts things in perspective. Frank D. Lincoln Jan 14 #1
It does senseandsensibility Jan 14 #2
Thanks. nt Frank D. Lincoln Jan 14 #5
Sure does...California should keep their 83B for the next 2 years, Volaris Jan 15 #32
Other than some excise taxes, the tax money sent to the Federal government comes from individual taxpayers not the state MichMan Jan 14 #3
States don't get the payments from withholdings, but they have ways of knowing.... lastlib Jan 15 #21
Sure they know, but how would they be able to keep it for themselves instead of it going to the Feds? MichMan Jan 15 #22
In one of the many tax breaks Farmer-Rick Jan 15 #24
Yes and Moses Mikes Traildogbob Jan 14 #4
Cut them bdamomma Jan 14 #6
Here's the facts about CA Bread and Circuses Jan 14 #7
Republicons have lost the thread of the UNITED States. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 14 #8
This is a situation that is way under reported. Blue states support those in red states who have been let down by the Martin68 Jan 14 #9
How would blue states SickOfTheOnePct Jan 14 #10
Canada welcomes our 11th and 12 provinces: N and S California ! . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 14 #11
Most of us on DU know that CA is a net payor Ilsa Jan 14 #12
This website really puts things in perspective. boonecreek Jan 14 #13
Wow, thanks for posting, might be a great handout to Red State, MAGA stooges. a kennedy Jan 14 #15
My pleasure. boonecreek Jan 14 #16
Wouldn't believe it OrangeJoe Jan 15 #36
If you read You Tube comments BigmanPigman Jan 14 #17
Fourth largest economy in the world. boonecreek Jan 14 #19
I'm a New Yorker. I'm guessing I'm reading it wrong, but the listed "Federal dependency" for New York Scrivener7 Jan 15 #40
New York is 15th in state government depedency. boonecreek Jan 15 #42
But then the charts show NY as being very low in government dependency. In one, it appears to be the Scrivener7 Jan 15 #44
They show their methodology further down, boonecreek Jan 15 #47
Abolish the federal tax! JadedButHopeful Jan 14 #14
You think someone making minimum wage should have the same SS and Medicare contribution as someone making $150k ? MichMan Jan 15 #23
Media will sanewash whatever Rethugs propose and per usual make it look normal. NoMoreRepugs Jan 14 #18
Shutoff all hurricane aid. roamer65 Jan 15 #20
And those of us who pay state taxes iemanja Jan 15 #25
Just how would your own state taxes be subsidizing other states? n/t MichMan Jan 15 #26
The amount we pay in federal taxes iemanja Jan 15 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Jan 15 #30
It all goes on the balance sheet iemanja Jan 15 #43
Geez I'd forgotten about that senseandsensibility Jan 15 #41
Good to Know .. I Figured it was HIGH. Cha Jan 15 #27
Wealthy GOP donors will be thrilled to learn that their party wants to cut off aid to CA. usonian Jan 15 #29
Anyone rich enough to itemize deductions... Chemical Bill Jan 15 #31
This is the perfect situation to make Mr. Mustard 2023 Jan 15 #33
The eternal question IMHO: senseandsensibility Jan 15 #39
We hear people & GOP Pols back east whining about CA Billionaires with 'million dollar homes' not needing help Attilatheblond Jan 15 #34
Politicalization of Disaster Relief is reprehensible. n/t rasputin1952 Jan 15 #35
States aren't taxed, people are MichMan Jan 15 #37
That money could help bolster federal moneys lost and have $ left over if there was a realignment at some future date. Magoo48 Jan 15 #38
71 Percent of U.S. GDP is generated in Blue States while 8 of top 10 welfare states are Red States. eom Exp Jan 15 #45
In that case, it only makes sense that blue states pay 71% of the taxes n/t MichMan Jan 15 #46
Ha ha sure, but the tax rates on earned income are higher than that simple GDP number. The point is that Exp Jan 15 #50
I disagree MichMan Jan 15 #51
It is the Red States that are takers, their policies are bad, their min wages are bad, their healthcare and education Exp Jan 16 #52
I knew that before she said it. Very frustrated that officials didn't say it immediately. SleeplessinSoCal Jan 15 #48
Trump wants a piece of the California action money wise. Irish_Dem Jan 15 #49

Volaris

(10,800 posts)
32. Sure does...California should keep their 83B for the next 2 years,
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 09:21 AM
Jan 15

And tell Speaker Mike 'it's cool, we don't need you to do anything for us, and we'll just call it even.'

MichMan

(14,688 posts)
3. Other than some excise taxes, the tax money sent to the Federal government comes from individual taxpayers not the state
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 09:46 PM
Jan 14

California does not send a big state check to the Federal government every week.

Just how would a California be able to intercept all the income tax withholding and FICA payments from individual taxpayers when it is sent directly by their employers to the US Treasury ?

So, employees would have their taxes withheld from their paychecks by their employer, but instead of it going to the US Treasury, the state government would seize it first? What happens when the employee then faces Federal charges for non payment of taxes, or underfunding their own Social Security and Medicare, even though the money was withheld?

lastlib

(25,630 posts)
21. States don't get the payments from withholdings, but they have ways of knowing....
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 12:23 AM
Jan 15

...how much their people send to Uncle Sam. I'm sure you've seen a Form W-2; it has a bunch of info like that. They also get tax returns that tell them how much people pay in federal taxes, because that's crucial to determining people's state taxes. A lot of that info is shared with other states. So they know.

MichMan

(14,688 posts)
22. Sure they know, but how would they be able to keep it for themselves instead of it going to the Feds?
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 12:31 AM
Jan 15

Farmer-Rick

(11,708 posts)
24. In one of the many tax breaks
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 01:06 AM
Jan 15

A corporation got for bringing jobs to the US, was the ability to retain their employees' tax withholdings and not forward them to the treasury

It was an effort to reduce paperwork. So that the corporation didn't forward the funds to the treasury then the treasury turns around and sends it back to the corporation. It was still reported to the IRS, so the employee got credited.

Also Feds and State tax agencies corporate in collecting debts from individuals through tax withholding refunds.

Those are a couple of ways where withholdings are intercepted. But yeah, the federal government would have to cooperate to stop those funds from going to the federal treasury. I don't think they can be stopped by the state without some serious problems.

Traildogbob

(10,866 posts)
4. Yes and Moses Mikes
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 09:49 PM
Jan 14

State takes the most, pay’s the least and is the most illiterate state. True welfare state. With tons of disaster relief needed annually.

Bread and Circuses

(659 posts)
7. Here's the facts about CA
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 10:15 PM
Jan 14


Mike Johnson holding CA relief aid hostage!

Mike Johnson holding CA relief aid hostage!
California's GDP is about 14% of national GDP, followed by Texas - 9% New York- 8%.
California's economy ranks fifth in the world!

Republicans are rooting for California to fail and drag the county into financial ruin and chaos!
#AllRoadsLeadToPutin

These are your Christians , wanting America to great — NOPE!
They’re all seditious conspirators.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/california/article_e34d8610-d1f7-11ef-92d1-2f97b75fa12c.html

Martin68

(25,284 posts)
9. This is a situation that is way under reported. Blue states support those in red states who have been let down by the
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 10:28 PM
Jan 14

representatives they keep voting for. Perhaps blues states should withhold funds for their own use rather than contribute to red state insolvency and lack of support further own citizens in health care, education, and services.

Ilsa

(62,666 posts)
12. Most of us on DU know that CA is a net payor
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 10:35 PM
Jan 14

and thst it's time for other states to carry some of the burden for awhile. IRS receipts from CA are going to be extremely lower for awhile with so many unable to work or open businesses.

OrangeJoe

(482 posts)
36. Wouldn't believe it
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 11:28 AM
Jan 15

Unfortunately the past 10 years have seen an assault on truth. Go ahead and show your data & studies to MAGAs. Assuming they can actually read and process the information they would just dismiss it as “fake news”.

BigmanPigman

(52,744 posts)
17. If you read You Tube comments
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 11:30 PM
Jan 14

you learn very quickly how ignorant and hateful residents in other states feel about CA (no pity only "CA deserves it" posts). They have been conned by their lying leaders and media and it makes me puke!

boonecreek

(821 posts)
19. Fourth largest economy in the world.
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 11:49 PM
Jan 14

They contribute more to the economy than any U.S. state.
Yet the Repukes would have us believe that they're the ones
causing the the price of eggs problem.

Scrivener7

(54,997 posts)
40. I'm a New Yorker. I'm guessing I'm reading it wrong, but the listed "Federal dependency" for New York
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 06:05 PM
Jan 15

doesn't seem to match the charts for "Federal dependency."

New York is ranked 15th state in Federal dependency in the list, but in both charts about Federal dependency, New York has the lowest or nearly lowest Federal dependency.

Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?

boonecreek

(821 posts)
42. New York is 15th in state government depedency.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 07:07 PM
Jan 15

This could be due to a high number of federal jobs.
However, the state resident's dependency ranking
is 47 which means New Yorkers are sending far more
to Washington than they're getting back. I hope this helps.

Scrivener7

(54,997 posts)
44. But then the charts show NY as being very low in government dependency. In one, it appears to be the
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 07:10 PM
Jan 15

least dependent and in the other it appears to be among the three least dependent on the government.

boonecreek

(821 posts)
47. They show their methodology further down,
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 07:47 PM
Jan 15

but without actual revenue numbers it's difficult
to make sense of. Suffice to say, New York like
all the blue states sends far more than it receives.

JadedButHopeful

(23 posts)
14. Abolish the federal tax!
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 10:58 PM
Jan 14

That's what blue states should be pushing.

Only thing you should have to pay is your state tax.

We then contribute to Military, Social Security, and Medicare on a fixed per person basis, regardless of state.

Let's see how red staters like that approach.

MichMan

(14,688 posts)
23. You think someone making minimum wage should have the same SS and Medicare contribution as someone making $150k ?
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 12:33 AM
Jan 15

iemanja

(55,753 posts)
25. And those of us who pay state taxes
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 01:15 AM
Jan 15

To subsidize the red state welfare queens no longer get to deduct them, thanks to the Trump tax increases.

iemanja

(55,753 posts)
28. The amount we pay in federal taxes
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 01:21 AM
Jan 15

Is greater than we receive from the federal govt, while red states pay less and live off the federal teat.

Response to iemanja (Reply #28)

iemanja

(55,753 posts)
43. It all goes on the balance sheet
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 07:08 PM
Jan 15

The states that most subsidize the federal government also have relatively high state taxes, whereas the states that receive the most from the federal government tend to have no state income tax.

senseandsensibility

(21,543 posts)
41. Geez I'd forgotten about that
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 06:40 PM
Jan 15

Still, it's the Dems' job to make this known and I'm hearing crickets. They just suck at offense I'm afraid.

usonian

(16,849 posts)
29. Wealthy GOP donors will be thrilled to learn that their party wants to cut off aid to CA.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 01:39 AM
Jan 15

They may like blackmail conditions, but "money matters"

In fact, money is the only matter. All this maga bullshit is a cover for kleptocracy.

Procurement Capture
💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219876755

Chemical Bill

(2,728 posts)
31. Anyone rich enough to itemize deductions...
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 09:04 AM
Jan 15

can make large, tax deductible contributions to local charities. This keeps at least some of California's money from DC.

I just saw that Hollywood is pausing some film and TV shows right now. Many businesses will have less production and large rebuilding costs this year. Less profits equals lower taxes.

I know the tragedy outweighs this, but maybe DC will notice that less money is rolling in from LA.

Bill

Mr. Mustard 2023

(308 posts)
33. This is the perfect situation to make
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 10:04 AM
Jan 15

political hay. "Okay Donald, then CA isn't sending our federal dollars if you won't use them to help us when in dire need."

Oh that'll get attention.

senseandsensibility

(21,543 posts)
39. The eternal question IMHO:
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 03:36 PM
Jan 15

Why oh why won't Dems play hardball when they have such great material to work with? They get absolutely no credit for taking the high road.

Attilatheblond

(5,563 posts)
34. We hear people & GOP Pols back east whining about CA Billionaires with 'million dollar homes' not needing help
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 10:41 AM
Jan 15

Those folks have no idea what housing costs in CA.
This listing just came into my inbox: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/302-N-Montgomery-St-Ojai-CA-93023/16311045_zpid/?rtoken=6bbeda7b-0fbf-4364-a0fb-94aeb8a19d24~X1-ZUxk8shv7km5ft_8xo7u]

House in Ojai, Ca, which is in a valley just north (over the coastal foothills) from Ventura, CA. Like Altadena, this is an old farming community and many houses are old and not lavish at all. Yeah, there are some actual fancy houses and ranchetts in the Ojai, but this one, at over $1.5 million is petty average. 3beds 2baths 2,171sqft Single Family Residence Built in 1950 8,507 sqft lot $1,515,800 Zestimate® $713/sqft This house looks to include a 'guest house' which seems currently used for an in-home business.

Just a lil dose of reality to share with the folks who think 'Million Dollar Houses' are pretty damned fancy.

MichMan

(14,688 posts)
37. States aren't taxed, people are
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 02:43 PM
Jan 15

According to the data, the residents of Hawaii, California, Massachusetts, DC, and Maryland have the highest median incomes in the entire country. Based on that it would seem logical that taxpayers in those states would be contributing more to the treasury than residents of states with lower incomes.

Are we saying that wealthier taxpayers are now overtaxed ?

https://www.voronoiapp.com/economy/The-Median-Income-in-Every-State-Adjusted-for-Cost-of-Living-1585

Magoo48

(6,141 posts)
38. That money could help bolster federal moneys lost and have $ left over if there was a realignment at some future date.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 03:15 PM
Jan 15

Exp

(227 posts)
45. 71 Percent of U.S. GDP is generated in Blue States while 8 of top 10 welfare states are Red States. eom
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 07:23 PM
Jan 15

Exp

(227 posts)
50. Ha ha sure, but the tax rates on earned income are higher than that simple GDP number. The point is that
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 10:10 PM
Jan 15

Blue States should then GET BACK 71 percent of THE DISCRETIONARY BUDGET. We do not. We are being ripped off by the Red States.


https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/

MichMan

(14,688 posts)
51. I disagree
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 10:29 PM
Jan 15

Odd position to take, as our system isn't set up so those who pay more thus automatically get more.

Government expenditures aren't based on how much people pay in taxes. People are taxed according to their ability to pay their fair share. Should wealthy suburbs receive back their own tax money for themselves, instead of sharing it with neighboring lower income inner cities?

Exp

(227 posts)
52. It is the Red States that are takers, their policies are bad, their min wages are bad, their healthcare and education
Thu Jan 16, 2025, 02:23 AM
Jan 16

spending are at the bottom. And then they want the Bible in schools.

Tax the fucking churches, already.

SleeplessinSoCal

(10,007 posts)
48. I knew that before she said it. Very frustrated that officials didn't say it immediately.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 07:58 PM
Jan 15

The country needs to hear that CA saves the bacon of millions of Americans via our tax $$$.

Irish_Dem

(67,211 posts)
49. Trump wants a piece of the California action money wise.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 08:42 PM
Jan 15

He expects Newsom to pony up some cash like the billionaires are doing.
And wants Newsom to kiss the ring.

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