Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

senseandsensibility

(20,516 posts)
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 08:29 PM Tuesday

Just heard on Joy Reid

California contributes 83 billion more dollars to the federal govt. than they receive. In fact, Los Angeles County alone contributes more to the federal govt. than all but 4 other states combined.

Yet the welfare (red) states who take more than they contribute are trying to put conditions on aid to their benefactor, California! It's insane!

Good for Joy. Now the Dems need to start screaming about this.

52 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Just heard on Joy Reid (Original Post) senseandsensibility Tuesday OP
Wow, that really puts things in perspective. Frank D. Lincoln Tuesday #1
It does senseandsensibility Tuesday #2
Thanks. nt Frank D. Lincoln Tuesday #5
Sure does...California should keep their 83B for the next 2 years, Volaris Wednesday #32
Other than some excise taxes, the tax money sent to the Federal government comes from individual taxpayers not the state MichMan Tuesday #3
States don't get the payments from withholdings, but they have ways of knowing.... lastlib Tuesday #21
Sure they know, but how would they be able to keep it for themselves instead of it going to the Feds? MichMan Tuesday #22
In one of the many tax breaks Farmer-Rick Wednesday #24
Yes and Moses Mikes Traildogbob Tuesday #4
Cut them bdamomma Tuesday #6
Here's the facts about CA Bread and Circuses Tuesday #7
Republicons have lost the thread of the UNITED States. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Tuesday #8
This is a situation that is way under reported. Blue states support those in red states who have been let down by the Martin68 Tuesday #9
How would blue states SickOfTheOnePct Tuesday #10
Canada welcomes our 11th and 12 provinces: N and S California ! . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Tuesday #11
Most of us on DU know that CA is a net payor Ilsa Tuesday #12
This website really puts things in perspective. boonecreek Tuesday #13
Wow, thanks for posting, might be a great handout to Red State, MAGA stooges. a kennedy Tuesday #15
My pleasure. boonecreek Tuesday #16
Wouldn't believe it OrangeJoe Wednesday #36
If you read You Tube comments BigmanPigman Tuesday #17
Fourth largest economy in the world. boonecreek Tuesday #19
I'm a New Yorker. I'm guessing I'm reading it wrong, but the listed "Federal dependency" for New York Scrivener7 Wednesday #40
New York is 15th in state government depedency. boonecreek Wednesday #42
But then the charts show NY as being very low in government dependency. In one, it appears to be the Scrivener7 Wednesday #44
They show their methodology further down, boonecreek Wednesday #47
Abolish the federal tax! JadedButHopeful Tuesday #14
You think someone making minimum wage should have the same SS and Medicare contribution as someone making $150k ? MichMan Tuesday #23
Media will sanewash whatever Rethugs propose and per usual make it look normal. NoMoreRepugs Tuesday #18
Shutoff all hurricane aid. roamer65 Tuesday #20
And those of us who pay state taxes iemanja Wednesday #25
Just how would your own state taxes be subsidizing other states? n/t MichMan Wednesday #26
The amount we pay in federal taxes iemanja Wednesday #28
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Wednesday #30
It all goes on the balance sheet iemanja Wednesday #43
Geez I'd forgotten about that senseandsensibility Wednesday #41
Good to Know .. I Figured it was HIGH. Cha Wednesday #27
Wealthy GOP donors will be thrilled to learn that their party wants to cut off aid to CA. usonian Wednesday #29
Anyone rich enough to itemize deductions... Chemical Bill Wednesday #31
This is the perfect situation to make Mr. Mustard 2023 Wednesday #33
The eternal question IMHO: senseandsensibility Wednesday #39
We hear people & GOP Pols back east whining about CA Billionaires with 'million dollar homes' not needing help Attilatheblond Wednesday #34
Politicalization of Disaster Relief is reprehensible. n/t rasputin1952 Wednesday #35
States aren't taxed, people are MichMan Wednesday #37
That money could help bolster federal moneys lost and have $ left over if there was a realignment at some future date. Magoo48 Wednesday #38
71 Percent of U.S. GDP is generated in Blue States while 8 of top 10 welfare states are Red States. eom Exp Wednesday #45
In that case, it only makes sense that blue states pay 71% of the taxes n/t MichMan Wednesday #46
Ha ha sure, but the tax rates on earned income are higher than that simple GDP number. The point is that Exp Wednesday #50
I disagree MichMan Wednesday #51
It is the Red States that are takers, their policies are bad, their min wages are bad, their healthcare and education Exp Yesterday #52
I knew that before she said it. Very frustrated that officials didn't say it immediately. SleeplessinSoCal Wednesday #48
Trump wants a piece of the California action money wise. Irish_Dem Wednesday #49

Volaris

(10,684 posts)
32. Sure does...California should keep their 83B for the next 2 years,
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 08:21 AM
Wednesday

And tell Speaker Mike 'it's cool, we don't need you to do anything for us, and we'll just call it even.'

MichMan

(13,784 posts)
3. Other than some excise taxes, the tax money sent to the Federal government comes from individual taxpayers not the state
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 08:46 PM
Tuesday

California does not send a big state check to the Federal government every week.

Just how would a California be able to intercept all the income tax withholding and FICA payments from individual taxpayers when it is sent directly by their employers to the US Treasury ?

So, employees would have their taxes withheld from their paychecks by their employer, but instead of it going to the US Treasury, the state government would seize it first? What happens when the employee then faces Federal charges for non payment of taxes, or underfunding their own Social Security and Medicare, even though the money was withheld?

lastlib

(25,074 posts)
21. States don't get the payments from withholdings, but they have ways of knowing....
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 11:23 PM
Tuesday

...how much their people send to Uncle Sam. I'm sure you've seen a Form W-2; it has a bunch of info like that. They also get tax returns that tell them how much people pay in federal taxes, because that's crucial to determining people's state taxes. A lot of that info is shared with other states. So they know.

MichMan

(13,784 posts)
22. Sure they know, but how would they be able to keep it for themselves instead of it going to the Feds?
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 11:31 PM
Tuesday

Farmer-Rick

(11,587 posts)
24. In one of the many tax breaks
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 12:06 AM
Wednesday

A corporation got for bringing jobs to the US, was the ability to retain their employees' tax withholdings and not forward them to the treasury

It was an effort to reduce paperwork. So that the corporation didn't forward the funds to the treasury then the treasury turns around and sends it back to the corporation. It was still reported to the IRS, so the employee got credited.

Also Feds and State tax agencies corporate in collecting debts from individuals through tax withholding refunds.

Those are a couple of ways where withholdings are intercepted. But yeah, the federal government would have to cooperate to stop those funds from going to the federal treasury. I don't think they can be stopped by the state without some serious problems.

Traildogbob

(10,313 posts)
4. Yes and Moses Mikes
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 08:49 PM
Tuesday

State takes the most, pay’s the least and is the most illiterate state. True welfare state. With tons of disaster relief needed annually.

Bread and Circuses

(325 posts)
7. Here's the facts about CA
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 09:15 PM
Tuesday


Mike Johnson holding CA relief aid hostage!

Mike Johnson holding CA relief aid hostage!
California's GDP is about 14% of national GDP, followed by Texas - 9% New York- 8%.
California's economy ranks fifth in the world!

Republicans are rooting for California to fail and drag the county into financial ruin and chaos!
#AllRoadsLeadToPutin

These are your Christians , wanting America to great — NOPE!
They’re all seditious conspirators.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/california/article_e34d8610-d1f7-11ef-92d1-2f97b75fa12c.html

Martin68

(24,822 posts)
9. This is a situation that is way under reported. Blue states support those in red states who have been let down by the
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 09:28 PM
Tuesday

representatives they keep voting for. Perhaps blues states should withhold funds for their own use rather than contribute to red state insolvency and lack of support further own citizens in health care, education, and services.

Ilsa

(62,353 posts)
12. Most of us on DU know that CA is a net payor
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 09:35 PM
Tuesday

and thst it's time for other states to carry some of the burden for awhile. IRS receipts from CA are going to be extremely lower for awhile with so many unable to work or open businesses.

OrangeJoe

(444 posts)
36. Wouldn't believe it
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 10:28 AM
Wednesday

Unfortunately the past 10 years have seen an assault on truth. Go ahead and show your data & studies to MAGAs. Assuming they can actually read and process the information they would just dismiss it as “fake news”.

BigmanPigman

(52,468 posts)
17. If you read You Tube comments
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 10:30 PM
Tuesday

you learn very quickly how ignorant and hateful residents in other states feel about CA (no pity only "CA deserves it" posts). They have been conned by their lying leaders and media and it makes me puke!

boonecreek

(351 posts)
19. Fourth largest economy in the world.
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 10:49 PM
Tuesday

They contribute more to the economy than any U.S. state.
Yet the Repukes would have us believe that they're the ones
causing the the price of eggs problem.

Scrivener7

(53,496 posts)
40. I'm a New Yorker. I'm guessing I'm reading it wrong, but the listed "Federal dependency" for New York
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 05:05 PM
Wednesday

doesn't seem to match the charts for "Federal dependency."

New York is ranked 15th state in Federal dependency in the list, but in both charts about Federal dependency, New York has the lowest or nearly lowest Federal dependency.

Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?

boonecreek

(351 posts)
42. New York is 15th in state government depedency.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 06:07 PM
Wednesday

This could be due to a high number of federal jobs.
However, the state resident's dependency ranking
is 47 which means New Yorkers are sending far more
to Washington than they're getting back. I hope this helps.

Scrivener7

(53,496 posts)
44. But then the charts show NY as being very low in government dependency. In one, it appears to be the
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 06:10 PM
Wednesday

least dependent and in the other it appears to be among the three least dependent on the government.

boonecreek

(351 posts)
47. They show their methodology further down,
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 06:47 PM
Wednesday

but without actual revenue numbers it's difficult
to make sense of. Suffice to say, New York like
all the blue states sends far more than it receives.

JadedButHopeful

(18 posts)
14. Abolish the federal tax!
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 09:58 PM
Tuesday

That's what blue states should be pushing.

Only thing you should have to pay is your state tax.

We then contribute to Military, Social Security, and Medicare on a fixed per person basis, regardless of state.

Let's see how red staters like that approach.

MichMan

(13,784 posts)
23. You think someone making minimum wage should have the same SS and Medicare contribution as someone making $150k ?
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 11:33 PM
Tuesday

iemanja

(55,074 posts)
25. And those of us who pay state taxes
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 12:15 AM
Wednesday

To subsidize the red state welfare queens no longer get to deduct them, thanks to the Trump tax increases.

iemanja

(55,074 posts)
28. The amount we pay in federal taxes
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 12:21 AM
Wednesday

Is greater than we receive from the federal govt, while red states pay less and live off the federal teat.

Response to iemanja (Reply #28)

iemanja

(55,074 posts)
43. It all goes on the balance sheet
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 06:08 PM
Wednesday

The states that most subsidize the federal government also have relatively high state taxes, whereas the states that receive the most from the federal government tend to have no state income tax.

senseandsensibility

(20,516 posts)
41. Geez I'd forgotten about that
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 05:40 PM
Wednesday

Still, it's the Dems' job to make this known and I'm hearing crickets. They just suck at offense I'm afraid.

usonian

(15,173 posts)
29. Wealthy GOP donors will be thrilled to learn that their party wants to cut off aid to CA.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 12:39 AM
Wednesday

They may like blackmail conditions, but "money matters"

In fact, money is the only matter. All this maga bullshit is a cover for kleptocracy.

Procurement Capture
💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219876755

Chemical Bill

(2,652 posts)
31. Anyone rich enough to itemize deductions...
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 08:04 AM
Wednesday

can make large, tax deductible contributions to local charities. This keeps at least some of California's money from DC.

I just saw that Hollywood is pausing some film and TV shows right now. Many businesses will have less production and large rebuilding costs this year. Less profits equals lower taxes.

I know the tragedy outweighs this, but maybe DC will notice that less money is rolling in from LA.

Bill

Mr. Mustard 2023

(267 posts)
33. This is the perfect situation to make
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 09:04 AM
Wednesday

political hay. "Okay Donald, then CA isn't sending our federal dollars if you won't use them to help us when in dire need."

Oh that'll get attention.

senseandsensibility

(20,516 posts)
39. The eternal question IMHO:
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 02:36 PM
Wednesday

Why oh why won't Dems play hardball when they have such great material to work with? They get absolutely no credit for taking the high road.

Attilatheblond

(4,860 posts)
34. We hear people & GOP Pols back east whining about CA Billionaires with 'million dollar homes' not needing help
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 09:41 AM
Wednesday

Those folks have no idea what housing costs in CA.
This listing just came into my inbox: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/302-N-Montgomery-St-Ojai-CA-93023/16311045_zpid/?rtoken=6bbeda7b-0fbf-4364-a0fb-94aeb8a19d24~X1-ZUxk8shv7km5ft_8xo7u]

House in Ojai, Ca, which is in a valley just north (over the coastal foothills) from Ventura, CA. Like Altadena, this is an old farming community and many houses are old and not lavish at all. Yeah, there are some actual fancy houses and ranchetts in the Ojai, but this one, at over $1.5 million is petty average. 3beds 2baths 2,171sqft Single Family Residence Built in 1950 8,507 sqft lot $1,515,800 Zestimate® $713/sqft This house looks to include a 'guest house' which seems currently used for an in-home business.

Just a lil dose of reality to share with the folks who think 'Million Dollar Houses' are pretty damned fancy.

MichMan

(13,784 posts)
37. States aren't taxed, people are
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 01:43 PM
Wednesday

According to the data, the residents of Hawaii, California, Massachusetts, DC, and Maryland have the highest median incomes in the entire country. Based on that it would seem logical that taxpayers in those states would be contributing more to the treasury than residents of states with lower incomes.

Are we saying that wealthier taxpayers are now overtaxed ?

https://www.voronoiapp.com/economy/The-Median-Income-in-Every-State-Adjusted-for-Cost-of-Living-1585

Magoo48

(5,649 posts)
38. That money could help bolster federal moneys lost and have $ left over if there was a realignment at some future date.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 02:15 PM
Wednesday

Exp

(59 posts)
45. 71 Percent of U.S. GDP is generated in Blue States while 8 of top 10 welfare states are Red States. eom
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 06:23 PM
Wednesday

Exp

(59 posts)
50. Ha ha sure, but the tax rates on earned income are higher than that simple GDP number. The point is that
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 09:10 PM
Wednesday

Blue States should then GET BACK 71 percent of THE DISCRETIONARY BUDGET. We do not. We are being ripped off by the Red States.


https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/

MichMan

(13,784 posts)
51. I disagree
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 09:29 PM
Wednesday

Odd position to take, as our system isn't set up so those who pay more thus automatically get more.

Government expenditures aren't based on how much people pay in taxes. People are taxed according to their ability to pay their fair share. Should wealthy suburbs receive back their own tax money for themselves, instead of sharing it with neighboring lower income inner cities?

Exp

(59 posts)
52. It is the Red States that are takers, their policies are bad, their min wages are bad, their healthcare and education
Thu Jan 16, 2025, 01:23 AM
Yesterday

spending are at the bottom. And then they want the Bible in schools.

Tax the fucking churches, already.

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,789 posts)
48. I knew that before she said it. Very frustrated that officials didn't say it immediately.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 06:58 PM
Wednesday

The country needs to hear that CA saves the bacon of millions of Americans via our tax $$$.

Irish_Dem

(61,069 posts)
49. Trump wants a piece of the California action money wise.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 07:42 PM
Wednesday

He expects Newsom to pony up some cash like the billionaires are doing.
And wants Newsom to kiss the ring.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Just heard on Joy Reid