Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

bigtree

(90,396 posts)
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 06:11 PM Tuesday

Jack Smith comes to Merrick Garland's defense



A common sentiment on the left is that Garland was too deferential to Trump after Joe Biden took office and failed to unleash the full might of the department on the former president for nearly two years. The delay, critics say, made it much more difficult for Smith — once he was appointed in November 2022 — to bring Trump to trial before the 2024 election.

But Smith’s report emphasized that the Justice Department was aggressively investigating leads related to Trump long before the special counsel’s tenure began. Litigation tactics by Trump and his allies, Smith argued, were the key factors that slowed the process to a crawl.

...It took Smith more than a year to obtain text messages between Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.) and Trump DOJ official Jeffrey Clark. And the department spent months fighting to access communications of John Eastman, a lawyer who helped devise Trump’s last-ditch efforts to remain in power.

The most protracted battles of all stemmed from Trump’s “broad invocation of executive privilege to try to prevent witnesses from providing evidence,” Smith wrote. It took months of secretive legal proceedings to secure testimony from Trump White House aides such as Mark Meadows, Dan Scavino and Pat Cipollone. Former Vice President Mike Pence also resisted testifying until a court ordered him to reveal some — but not all — details about his interactions with Trump. Smith noted that judges broadly rejected Trump’s privilege claims, with one holding that he was engaged in an “obvious” effort to delay the investigation.

Smith also drew attention to what may have been his biggest foil: the Supreme Court. He pointed out that the justices rebuffed his effort to put Trump’s presidential immunity claims on a similar timetable to the one the court adopted five decades earlier in litigation over Watergate and President Richard Nixon’s tapes.

And Smith argued that the Supreme Court’s resolution of Trump’s immunity assertion essentially guaranteed another round of litigation that would have been all but certain to return to the justices if Trump had not won the election and the prosecution had continued.

read: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/14/jack-smith-special-counsel-report-takeaways-00198252


...good reading for the reality-based community which has had to endure spurious claims about what was essentially a secret investigation and prosecution which only revealed its intentions in court, advantaging the reticence of DOJ to explain or defend their actions while the cases were still ongoing.
41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Jack Smith comes to Merrick Garland's defense (Original Post) bigtree Tuesday OP
Interesting mr715 Tuesday #1
Yeah, it's a shame garland waited until he got the J6 committee stuff. Think. Again. Tuesday #2
I don't know. While I appreciate Smith's defense of Garland, I still despise the way he handled the whole thing, after SWBTATTReg Tuesday #3
I didn't see it as "defending" garland.... Think. Again. Tuesday #4
Well, good. I don't think Garland deserves any defending, and IMHO, he's going to be defending his calls for years and SWBTATTReg Tuesday #6
Yeah, I guess he thought he was more clever than... Think. Again. Tuesday #7
He should have realized, DENVERPOPS Tuesday #16
the 'small fry' bigtree Tuesday #8
Here we go again. William769 Wednesday #30
if he had chosen Timewas Tuesday #5
you must have forgotten that the maga majority on the SC is at the end of any series of certain appeals bigtree Tuesday #10
He did nothing Timewas Tuesday #12
revisionism bigtree Tuesday #13
Walk us through exactly how a trial could have been "forced" to happen before the election Fiendish Thingy Tuesday #19
As if he "should have chosen," huh? ancianita Tuesday #22
Smith joins Mueller, Fitzgerald, Hur, etc. Silent Type Tuesday #9
all different prosecutions bigtree Tuesday #11
K&R Joinfortmill Tuesday #14
I think what it shows is the weakness in our justice system, that the processes can be dragged out ad nauseum. What is Evolve Dammit Tuesday #15
A LOT of cases in our justice system take years if defendants can afford counsel that ancianita Tuesday #23
Best justice for those who can afford it. I guess that is a huge point. Evolve Dammit Wednesday #25
So...? What do you think? ancianita Wednesday #28
I will continue to complain about cases that should have been brought that didn't happen. Especially when the stakes Evolve Dammit Wednesday #36
How's that working out for you so far? ancianita Wednesday #41
TY for this -- I so appreciate fact-based commentary Hekate Tuesday #17
Don't care. Iggo Tuesday #18
Smith can cover for Garland all he wants, and I haven't read the article at the link ... aggiesal Tuesday #20
it's stating the facts of the investigation bigtree Wednesday #34
That's a long response ... aggiesal Wednesday #37
that's proven false by what I posted, and what's in the report bigtree Wednesday #39
Of course he would. Jack Smith is a prosecutor who tells the truth. ancianita Tuesday #21
I have eyes edhopper Tuesday #24
lol bigtree Wednesday #31
Why would other articles edhopper Wednesday #35
this is a discussion board, not a news site. bigtree Wednesday #38
You see your democracy almost destroyed and don't go after the ones in charge for the longest time? GreenWave Wednesday #26
Garland's DOJ began investigating the Trump WH in 2021 bigtree Wednesday #40
My thoughts, looking back. bluestarone Wednesday #27
Thank you sir! William769 Wednesday #29
This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver Wednesday #33
LMAO BannonsLiver Wednesday #32

SWBTATTReg

(24,518 posts)
3. I don't know. While I appreciate Smith's defense of Garland, I still despise the way he handled the whole thing, after
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 06:30 PM
Tuesday

all, he was head of the DOJ and he was basically neutered. And his efforts in going after the small fry, getting convictions for all of the them, worthless as tRUMP said he would pardon everyone of them.

Think. Again.

(19,908 posts)
4. I didn't see it as "defending" garland....
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 06:37 PM
Tuesday

...Smith just left out the fact that garland didn't start pursuing trump for 2 years, until the J6 Committee report came out and gave him no choice.

SWBTATTReg

(24,518 posts)
6. Well, good. I don't think Garland deserves any defending, and IMHO, he's going to be defending his calls for years and
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 06:42 PM
Tuesday

years afterwards. And he'll deserve every bit of the criticism too.

Think. Again.

(19,908 posts)
7. Yeah, I guess he thought he was more clever than...
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 06:45 PM
Tuesday

...well, practically everyone.

Anyway, his legacy is shot at least. History will not be kind to ol' merrick.

DENVERPOPS

(10,370 posts)
16. He should have realized,
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 07:25 PM
Tuesday

even BEFORE the 2016 election that the Republicans were utilizing Guerrilla warfare, with no hold barred, and the Dems were still trying to take the high road with the Rules of the Geneva Convention.........

And, I don't think the Dem's leadership recognized that fact all the way up to November 6th, 2024............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Down to every last Republican,.........*THE MEANS JUSTIFIES THE END*..............Period........By hook or by crook......

bigtree

(90,396 posts)
8. the 'small fry'
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 06:50 PM
Tuesday

...was what the celebrated Jan 6 committee focused the most on, looking for connections between the rioters and the Trump WH.

Indeed, one of the FIRST efforts Garland made was to look for ties between the rioters and Trump, directing the investigation of financial connections and communications between rioters and WH confidants like Roger Stone, as well as activities out of the Willard Hotel where Oath Keepers were know to be organizing their assault on the Capitol.

It made pefect sense for DOJ to investigate those ties, especially since the Trump supporting rioters arrested produced over a dozen willing to cooperate with DOJ.

Even though the report states that they didn't find the collusion they were looking for, it makes no sense to criticize them for looking.

Moreover, that certainly wasn't the only effort Garland's team made in the early days of his term. It's really specious to criticize the effort because he was not only doing the heavy lifting that produced over 1200 prosecutions of dangerous, often violent Trump supporters, but was also handling the investigation he ordered to reach all the way to the top of the Trump cabal at the very same time.

There wasn't so much as a slight pause in that effort when Smith was brought in to take it home, and no evidence was ignored or left uninvestigated, the vast majority of it already subpoenaed and resolved through appeals courts before Smith came aboard. The rest was defended in successive courts well after that appointment by Garland's DOJ.

Smith actually took tome to explain in his report that Merrick Garland had taken NO action to impede his investigation or prosecution.

In fact, Smith came aboard what was described at the time as a 'fast moving investigation, ' inheriting over 20 Garland prosecutors and more evidence than Mueller inherited at the time of his appointment.

receipts:


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/28/us/politics/trump-investigation-thomas-windom.html


https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/11/politics/jack-smith-special-counsel-high-profile-moves-trump-criminal-investigations/index.html



From Mike Pence to ‘fake’ electors, here’s who has testified to the January 6 grand jury or met with prosecutors
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/politics/grand-jury-testimony-list-january-6-trump/index.html

William769

(56,259 posts)
30. Here we go again.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 01:39 PM
Wednesday

A special counsel is a lawyer appointed to investigate and potentially prosecute a case when there is a conflict of interest for the Justice Department. Special counsels are independent of the Justice Department and are selected from outside the government.

Timewas

(2,346 posts)
5. if he had chosen
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 06:41 PM
Tuesday

To stand up and do the right thing he would have been a hero, he may have been fired but he would have bee right. Instead the all decided to hide behind some half assed rule that has no real legal standing.

bigtree

(90,396 posts)
10. you must have forgotten that the maga majority on the SC is at the end of any series of certain appeals
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 06:55 PM
Tuesday

...Garland did stand up and do the right thing.

That shouldn't make anyone a hero, and I'm sure he isn't looking for that vanity at this stage in his life and career.

Timewas

(2,346 posts)
12. He did nothing
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 06:58 PM
Tuesday

Actually they did nothing, either one could have stood up for the country and forced things, they probably would have been fired but that was the "right" thing. Instead the report comes out after the election when it is way too late to have any effect.

bigtree

(90,396 posts)
13. revisionism
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 07:00 PM
Tuesday

...and nonsense.

The evidence of what Garland did is all throughout the dual, multi-felony indictments.

Fiendish Thingy

(19,023 posts)
19. Walk us through exactly how a trial could have been "forced" to happen before the election
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 08:45 PM
Tuesday

“Faster” and “sooner” are not acceptable answers.

It’s much more complicated than that.

bigtree

(90,396 posts)
11. all different prosecutions
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 06:58 PM
Tuesday

...conflated in this effort to criticize the people who worked to hold Trump accountable.

Not one of the judges or justices who actually delayed the latest prosecutions mentioned in that estimation, and that's really an amazing omission.

Evolve Dammit

(19,418 posts)
15. I think what it shows is the weakness in our justice system, that the processes can be dragged out ad nauseum. What is
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 07:23 PM
Tuesday

the breaking point? When after four years nothing reaches a jury and in another couple the Statute of Limitations makes it all moot anyhow?
Previously nobody blew through the "guardrails" or "norms" of the system and tied it up in knots like Roy Cohn's disciple.

ancianita

(39,082 posts)
23. A LOT of cases in our justice system take years if defendants can afford counsel that
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 09:25 PM
Tuesday

files all kinds of due process pre-trial motions.

The public is generally ignorant of how underfunded, understaffed our judicial system is, along with how overburdened court dockets are.
Yet the public finds it easier to complain about no justice than to ask why.



Evolve Dammit

(19,418 posts)
25. Best justice for those who can afford it. I guess that is a huge point.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 09:18 AM
Wednesday

And I know they are operating with huge workloads and could always use more staff. That is in almost all companies and government. My job was reorganized and we went from 16 to 4. I left soon after that. Waited until 65. Could have left at 62, but stuck around hoping it would improve. It didn't. I threw 32 years into a regulatory program, and the more lawyers and consultants they could afford did make it drag cases out.

ancianita

(39,082 posts)
28. So...? What do you think?
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 01:10 PM
Wednesday

Do we keep complaining about Justice itself? Or do we fix our justice systems' structural problems and funding?

We need to grow up, stop expecting perfection on starvation rations.
Stop demanding something we won't pay for. Freedom and justice for all ain't free.

Evolve Dammit

(19,418 posts)
36. I will continue to complain about cases that should have been brought that didn't happen. Especially when the stakes
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 02:15 PM
Wednesday

were so high. I've been involved in criminal cases, and these sure met the definition.

ancianita

(39,082 posts)
41. How's that working out for you so far?
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 09:15 PM
Wednesday

Now you'll have four years of injustice coming to compare to the last four.

aggiesal

(9,592 posts)
20. Smith can cover for Garland all he wants, and I haven't read the article at the link ...
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 09:05 PM
Tuesday

but everything mentioned in the excerpts boxes are after the Jan. 6th committee hearings and after Smith was assigned to Special Counsel.

Almost 2 years of wasted time not going after Pendejo45.

bigtree

(90,396 posts)
34. it's stating the facts of the investigation
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 02:00 PM
Wednesday

...refuting the bullshit that Garland wasn't investigating and pointing out the appeals process that often took years because of the way judges set the dates of hearings months into the future, and that there were myriad appeals that had to be fought in successive courts, sometimes up to the compromised Supreme Court before much of the key evidence gathered as early as 2021 would be available to present to the grand juries who make the recommendations to charge people for the federal government.

There was not 'almost two years wasted.' That's a provable lie for anyone who reads this report.

It's been a provable lie for years for anyone who bothers to read what's been reported about the investigation and prosecutions.

The most common misinformation has been that Garland waited unnecessarily to charge Trump. but the AG doesn't just bring indictments forward on some will and whim of his, DOJ uses grand juries to recommend charges in federal investigations.

As you can read in the Smith report, not only was evidence key to getting a grand jury to indict held up for sometimes years, testimony from key Trump officials was also held up in several courts proceedings with challenges to claims of executive privilege and attorney client protections which sometimes took as much as a year to resolve.

And the hearings which dates were set exclusively by often republican and Trump nominated judges and justices didn't all occur concurrently, but were dragged out for years before all of the evidence and witnesses were available for Jack Smith to present those to a grand jury.

No one has shown any evidence that the material Merrick Garland's prosecutors had gathered as early as 2021 was available to present to grand juries in the time you describe. To the contrary, this report clearly outlines those challenges and makes clear that the AG wasn't just diligent, but was successful in getting all of the evidence and witnesses through the myriad appeals through successive courts packed with republicans and Trumpers.

After all, it was Garland's prosecutors, DOJ career prosecutors, who argued all of the appeals cases, even after Jack Smith's appointment. Moreover, jack Smith inherited what was described as a 'fast moving investigation' which had already gathered more evidence than Mueller had when he started his own probe.

my receipts:


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/28/us/politics/trump-investigation-thomas-windom.html


https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/11/politics/jack-smith-special-counsel-high-profile-moves-trump-criminal-investigations/index.html



From Mike Pence to ‘fake’ electors, here’s who has testified to the January 6 grand jury or met with prosecutors
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/politics/grand-jury-testimony-list-january-6-trump/index.html

aggiesal

(9,592 posts)
37. That's a long response ...
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 02:39 PM
Wednesday

I understand that he's just stating facts.
So was I.
All of the facts, stated by Smith, occurred after the Jan. 6th Committee embarrassed Garland into doing something more substantive, over 1.5+ years after the Jan. 6th attack. When in my opinion, Garland should have started the day he got sworn in as Attorney General (Assign Smith immediately, not 1.5+ years later).

The DOJ likes to work from the bottom up, which takes a long time to reach the top. It's a tried and true method and effective. But this investigation should have started at the top and worked its way down, to make sure Trump didn't try to hide or implement his delay strategy, long before any election season started.

bigtree

(90,396 posts)
39. that's proven false by what I posted, and what's in the report
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 04:12 PM
Wednesday

...Garland's prosecutors began investigating the Trump WH as early as the Fall of 2021, well before Congress began their own investigations.

And you can tell just how little they contributed to the actual indictment by the dearth of any material from those hearings in evidence or from the witnesses who are key in the election interference charges brought by the Special Counsel.

Go on, name ONE thing from the one-sided congressional hearings which made it into the indictment.

Name one thing in the indictment from the Jan 6 committee investigation which withheld ALL of the product of their investigations from DOJ (despite repeated requests for a year) until MONTHS after they ended their hearings.

There's nothing in there that DOJ hadn't already obtained. ALL of the product of the subpoenas they initiated in 2021 was put through myriad appeals in successive courts, sometimes up to the Supreme Court. ALL of the witnesses in the indictment who were top Trump WH aides, officials, and attorneys saw their challenges defeated by Garland prosecutors stretching well into Smith's term.

You've presented a myopic, incomplete, and frankly false representation of the investigation and prosecution to make the conclusions you posted. You should read the report.

Garland directed his investigators FROM THE BEGINNING to go as high up the chain as the evidence took them. In the Fall of 2021, his Deputy AG directed Tom Windom to investigate the Trump WH:



from December 2022:


https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/11/politics/jack-smith-special-counsel-high-profile-moves-trump-criminal-investigations/index.html

No stone was left unturned, and this is important because, DOJ isn't just responsible for putting forth their charges and evidence of crimes in court, they are responsible for presenting responses to ALL of the evidence available. That includes what the perps present, as well as reconciling whatever Congress gathered.

All of that is required to be made available to the defense under Discovery obligations before a trial can proceed. It can make or break a case, so this notion that all they needed was one piece of the prosecution or the other is a simplistic and false representation of what would be a successful or even viable prosecution

Read the report.

ancianita

(39,082 posts)
21. Of course he would. Jack Smith is a prosecutor who tells the truth.
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 09:05 PM
Tuesday

Yet, what's obvious about how criminal investigations work has to be pointed out by Jack Smith himself.

Thanks for the Politico link. Glad they finally caught up with the realities of how the DOJ works and how the judicial system often doesn't.



edhopper

(35,146 posts)
35. Why would other articles
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 02:08 PM
Wednesday

by people just as blind as you about Garland mean anything to me. This is not from Smith, but an opinion piece telling us what they think Smith would say.
I could simply counter that with twice as many articles from legal pundits on how Garland screwed the pooch.
I won't because you made up your mind about Garland in 2021 and nothing will change it. Even as the man he prevented from being President destroys this country.

bigtree

(90,396 posts)
38. this is a discussion board, not a news site.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 03:40 PM
Wednesday

Last edited Wed Jan 15, 2025, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

...it's where ordinary people discuss news and events of the day.


What should occur in a discussion of events is a presentation of facts, which I have from two sources familiar with the subject at hand (Politico and the SC report). What I would ideally want from the post is a discussion of those facts presented.

I get from your post that's none of that is your thing.

That's okay. I won't characterize or try to respond to what you feel about it all. I'd prefer a factual discussion about what actually happened in the investigations and prosecutions, rather than just continuing the speculation and conjecture that occurred when the facts of the investigation weren't public and known but were just imagined and projected.

GreenWave

(9,661 posts)
26. You see your democracy almost destroyed and don't go after the ones in charge for the longest time?
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 11:26 AM
Wednesday

bigtree

(90,396 posts)
40. Garland's DOJ began investigating the Trump WH in 2021
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 04:27 PM
Wednesday

...so you're misinformed on that point.

bluestarone

(18,494 posts)
27. My thoughts, looking back.
Wed Jan 15, 2025, 12:03 PM
Wednesday

Blame can only be aimed at THIS Supreme court. (number 1) That gave Cannon (number2) exactly what was needed to STOP Smith in his tracks. NO more options for him. I'm sure that thomas and alito had NUMEROUS phone conversations with her. THAT should have been SCREAMED about, but that did not happen. So blame Garland? NO. i do not.

Response to William769 (Reply #29)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Jack Smith comes to Merri...